Continuing the conversation started by cbram titled ”The Real Spanish Police” here in the tapas bar is far more appropriate. Keep the sarcasm and name-calling out of it but vent or share your horror or happy stories about corruption in Spain and/or problems with the Spanish police.
I have to say that the corruption has worked to my benefit more than once. Especially with visa issues. Also, I’ve had pretty good experiences with the cops when they thought I was just a dumb tourist on more than one occasion. That said I’ve had some scary experiences with the Mossos d’Esquadra as well, seeing them beat down a few people during the World Cup last year, getting pulled over and ordered out of the car at machine gun point… the list goes on.
Wow! All I can say is I feel sorry for the gents from the UK who have had their lives upturned. I’m from the States, didn’t speak spanish when I arrived 10 months ago, and drive around a US registered motorcycle. To this day, I’ve learned to communicate reasonably OK for a 41 year old guy; have made A LOT of friends who always call me to invite me out somewhere; have danced on the beach in my underwear for the Fiesta of San Juan; and have not had a police run-in regarding my US plates even though the guardia civil is less than 200 meters from my home. The last issue is just a matter of not knowing how to proceed on my own because I don’t want to pay a gestoria an ungodly sum of money to do what, hopefully, I can do.
A lot of what I’ve read reminds me of the States. In many states the police are acting as described previously. More tickets for more useless stuff as the nation gets deeper in debt, and a resentment to foreigners, and not just those from “South of the Border”, but from everywhere outside of “America”. I see discrimination at work against the Moroccans and a few of the Africans. I also see discrimination against the Gypsies and Bulgarians as well---and a lot of snide comments directed at the British. I’m black, and so far the only discrimation I’ve recieved was from a French business in Santa Pola. They didn’t want to rent me a jet ski, and told me they closed at 7. My husband, a spaniard, went over to them and they told him they closed at 8. He threatened them with legal action when he mentioned what they told me, their faces turned red. They promptly closed when he walked away. I haven’t felt anything from spaniards: from my barber, to the people at the gas station, Mercadona, and my large extended family of in-laws.
Yes, I’ve also seen some of the so called corruption at work. The black money issue, the fees for the builder, fees for the gestoria, bank fees even though I keep a tidy sum at Caixa Catalunya, low wages and a not so low cost of living, and real estate agents commission for a place I FOUND on the internet! I do get frustrated at what I think is a lack of efficiency in the Spanish way. It seems that the government workers only exist to move a piece of paper from one side of their desk to the other. I think Telefonica is greedy for charging not only their monthly fee, but also per minute charges when I call them about THEIR malfunctioning equipment. In these regards, the United States, despite its deep problems, has the upper hand over Spain. Would I reverse the clock and stayed in the United States? NO WAY. Just would have taken spanish lessons before I came here.
No country is perfect. And I’m afraid the cost of living is rising no matter where you go in the globe. My mother is retired in the States and is barely scraping by because of the large jumps in prices from food to electricity to gasoline. Government fees are just a reality, whether here in Spain, Great Britain, or the United States. And I might add, in smaller towns in the US, only by knowing people in the town council, are you able to get things done rapidly when it comes to permits. Therefore the problem reported by cbram is not isolated to Spain.
hi, i live just north of the benidorm area in a small village called moraira, I have actually lived here now for almost eight years and i agree that there definitly is a “honeymoon period” when people first move in. It ends once life continues, can take days or years depending on financing really to be honest.
I hate to be confrontational but the reason those that claim they have not experienced Spanish racism is I suspect because you don’t speak Spanish (castellano), valenciano or any another of the other multitude of dialects well enough to recognise it.
We have a great little home but it does not mean it has been easy here in spain for us. We were ripped off at every stage during the house reform (and we knew it as we speak spanish fluently, Marina Villa’s may you take a long run on a short pier). And indeed we have had ‘experiences’ with the police that leave a bad taste in your mouth.
As a couple of examples of my experiences in spain.
Two years ago we paid for a house reform, we technically are still waiting for them to send someone out to fix a damp problem (we had it fixed ages ago but they dont know that)
When we first moved in I was coming out of the shower and I found two gypsy laddies trying to break into the house. Fortunatly I locked the front door (paranoid over family security). But when i opened the window to tell them I would call the police a short ugly woman pulled a bloody long knife out and threatened me as they both scarpered. The police arrived (actually fairly fast I must add) and shrugged when i told them. They said they would return later for my statement… they havnt been to this day (1.8yrs later).
We were burgled (we did not have an alarm fitted at the time but do now, best purchase ever). Thankfully we were out when it happened and they simply ripped off the back door and security shutter. The police arrived (again very quickly) but again shrugged but did demand we go to the station the following day to file a report, this was fine but we were made to feel it was out fault and we were wasting time. The insurance paid in full and I cant recommend them highly enough (payment in less than 4 days of €18,000)
Recently a member of family decided to move over to spain (Against our advice i must admit). He had to go to benidorm police station for some paper work and was forced to wait from 10:30 PM the night before to get in line for 9am the following morning when they opened. The police station ONLY do 30 instances of paperwork per day. HUNDREDS of people turn up daily to be turned away. Not witnessed this next bit but apparently now eastern europeans have created a ‘virtual list’ they are enforcing on the door step of the police station ... right under the police officers noses.
A lady (who is spanish) who worked at the local Vet’s was almost killed in a car accident by the son of a local wealthy family. the lady will never recover, she cannot remember people she has known for the last 40 years properly and will never be able to live a normal functioning life. It’s cruel to say but for me its worse than death. The son of the local wealthy family was not investigated or breathalised when the accident occured. People have come forward with statements he was doing over 100kph in a 40kph area but still the police will not get involved. Did i mention his father knows some very influential people in regional and local government. But there is no corruption and poor woman isn’t really THAT badly maimed. Just lost her life in all respects but respetory breathing.
I went to put up an air conditioning external unit on the out side of my store and the community ‘president’ (spanish) came screaming at me demanding that i get the appropriate ‘certificate and permits’ so i asked to see his and everyone elses ‘certificate and permits’ . It all melted away when he realised I would argue every point and waste HIS money every step of the way.
Worst of all this. I can forgive all of this but this I simply can not. Yes I am selfish and know it. Almost four years ago my father in law died (he lived in Moraira too), we called an ambulance when he had first collapsed. a car with paramedics turned up almost TWO HOURS later. he very well proberbly could have survived with professional care when he needed it. I accept it as gone midnight, but the roads are empty and teulada was only what.. 8 miles away. maybe we should have paid the rumored ‘get there quick money’.
Oh and if anyone at all is in doubt about the Spanish frame of mind even at the highest levels of government please look at the Land Grab (LRAU). It was found so illegal in EU court that sanctions effective immediatly were made… and ignored.
Saying all of this I must confess there is nowhere i can think of better to bring children under the age of 9 up. It’s healthy the schools are great if you can afford private but best of all they learn multiple languages. After the age of 9 I think that any other country is almost better for schooling unless you aspire for your children to bleed you dry of money or you wish them to become check-out girls in the supermarket or waitresses in the local bars.
My daughter is four years of age and she is very happy with her schools. She has been attending day care since a young age and we have never once had a sleepless night about her education. And we do both take everything concerning our daughter incredibly seriously like all parents do, selling everything and moving is something we discuss often but as yet we have not decided too. The schools for her age are THAT good that we will stay.. for now.
On the subject of wages, wages are the same the world over. you don’t get rich working for other people. And doing anything half arsed is just begging to fail. It’s why the spanish always win at bars for example. they always do the waiting themselves or in the family, and they put in the hours. It’s not their fault they have common sense in this regard.
Oh my! Having just joined the forum yesterday, I’m begining to wonder if it’s a good idea at all, to re-locate to Spain!
It’s sounding more and more like India (where I’m at) with every post I read!
Sincerely, I do understand and have knowledge about the kinds of things you’re talking about here but I guess I thought that as Spain was one of the most touristy destinations that at least Brits started going to about 40 years back, that the people would be more tolerant of foreigners - especially in the Cities and coastal destinations. What a sad thing it is for foreigners still to be seen as walking wallets and the like. As far as corruption goes, it’s most likely in almost every country in the world - India being one of the top three.
I had wondered what Spain would be like with people of different coloured skins (my son is Indian born and handicapped) but I suppose in the back of beyond and not a larger town he will also be considered strange. After all the talk we have, isn’t a sad thing that in 2007 we can’t accept each other for who we are and learn from our very rich and colourful cultures instead of using each other to get what we want.
I’m really sad to hear about the way in which your father-in-law was treated - it would also happen here...frequently. I had hoped, I guess, that Spain would have been a little better than that. I do hope I’mnot making a great mistake in bringing my son to Spain. As for me, well, I’m a bit long in the tooth to worry about how I’m treated after living here for seven years. A peaceful and trouble free life...I wonder if it will ever be possible in spain
To bring children up there is no better place. I’ve toured around abit to say the least. and the Spanish with children are great (at least in this area). To bring kids up I cannot think of a better place. My daughter loves her school and is even enjoying the current summer school.
Spain has many problems and I wont pretend that it doesn’t but for the time being at least for us, the benefit my daughter gains from being here far out weighs our discomfort. We invested in an alarm connected to the alarm company and we use a good insurance company (NOT the cheapest) and this helps offset most things (READ the insurance policy things are not as you are used too).
The main thing we have learned however is to NEVER rely on anyone other than ourselves. if one of us is ill, or break a bone for instance. we get in the car and drive to the Hospital where competent staff are. It is worth getting private health insurance, it is not cheap but my God when you need it you will be greatful for your forethought.
At the risk of sounding an ass:
Spain is like everywhere else in the World. They just smile as they rob you here. Get EVERYTHING in writing and don’t try any “deals” they never work out.. not ever. Pay for nothing up-front in full, pay a LARGE balance on delivery (it ensures you get it when you agreed to). And never pay them until the job is DONE and DONE CORRECTLY to how you wanted.
And expect nothing at all to happen from aprox July 15th to Sept 15th. And last but not least, you would NEVER buy a house in England without checking the place out at different times of the day for noise level and looking at the quality of the people that live around the place your intending to buy so why people don’t do this in Spain is crazy.
Regards and I’m sure you will find Spain a great place to raise your Child.
ps. It may sound like a bad jest but remember “You always know when someone is lying to you. Their lips move”.
I totally agree that India is not a great place to raise a child - my child is Indian, but I have been working for 6 years to get him out of here. Please God that is all at a happy end now.
I won’t start on about what it’s like living here though - that would be for another thread, if not another forum and there may be things said that could get me deported...ha ha
I have found the police in Spain to be the most professional and efficient that I have encountered in most parts of the world. They require a level of education and transforms many of them into gentlemen. HOWEVER, I believe the benidorm police to be very corrupt. I think they work with the pic-pocket theives on the street also.
We lived in Barcelona for two years, police on every corner, or so it seemed, both my two teenage girls had the bags stolen (in a real touristy area mind) and nothing could be done, just a way of life!!! They were deemed to be tourist although both have residencia! Anyway the point is, I think we just expected things like that to happen in a big city and nothing to be done....where we live now, we actually have a police car patroling the area, just as a precaution (as some houses are left empty for a period of time) and feel tonnes better (touch wood nothing happens now!!!) OK, not had any of the experiences as some of the people on here and hopefully never will, but all in all pretty good and also we happen to know people who know people, which also helps, I suppose!!! Police are police wherever you go and you get good and bad whatever!!!
I have found the police in Spain to be the most professional and efficient that I have encountered in most parts of the world. They require a level of education and transforms many of them into gentlemen. HOWEVER, I believe the benidorm police to be very corrupt. I think they work with the pic-pocket theives on the street also.
When i am in alqueria our chief of police is wonderfull, what we find anoying are some expats who think everyone should speak english.
If you try a little spanish they will bend over backwards to help if you shout in english i and the kind and pleasent people in our village including our police will say no hable our police are not crooks they are ordinary working men
We lived in Barcelona for two years, police on every corner, or so it seemed, both my two teenage girls had the bags stolen (in a real touristy area mind) and nothing could be done, just a way of life!!! They were deemed to be tourist although both have residencia! Anyway the point is, I think we just expected things like that to happen in a big city and nothing to be done....where we live now, we actually have a police car patroling the area, just as a precaution (as some houses are left empty for a period of time) and feel tonnes better (touch wood nothing happens now!!!) OK, not had any of the experiences as some of the people on here and hopefully never will, but all in all pretty good and also we happen to know people who know people, which also helps, I suppose!!! Police are police wherever you go and you get good and bad whatever!!!
I have to change my mind regarding Barcelona. I think maybe the police are good there, but there are too many criminals! the Marrocans are horrible. While in Barcelona I saw, WITH MY OWN EYES 7 crimes taking place. that place is out of control. I was asaulted myself by a young Marrocan couple. the guy held me and the woman tried to CUT MY THROAT, can you imagine!, I had a scar for 2 weeks. Those people are animales, they have no respect for human life. You people who live in Barcelona you have all my respect. I would never even visit that place. I think it has to be more dangerous than any place I have visited, even Rio or Mexico. Thank God the police arrived or I would not be writting this now. I was not racist before, but I am totally down on islamists now. they are monsters! Islamists the ones that say they are good, are also responsible. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Those schools, and peers are responsible for a person that does not value human life.
When i am in alqueria our chief of police is wonderfull, what we find anoying are some expats who think everyone should speak english.
If you try a little spanish they will bend over backwards to help if you shout in english i and the kind and pleasent people in our village including our police will say no hable our police are not crooks they are ordinary working men
Sir, unless you are native, even in most cases if you ARE native, I can assure you every member of my home speaks better Spanish than yourself. My wife is proficient to a legal professional level in castilian as well as the local dialect. The area I reside in has a majority of foreigners (confirmed by census) so yes it is not much to expect the local police to speak a “little” English, as indeed they all do here in Moraira.
By the way I do love the way you try to twist and belittle peoples experiences as being their own fault. Your very fortunate, and I am happy for you that you have not had a negative experience in Spain as yet. But please do try to use the brain God gave you, these problems are not peoples imagination or a misunderstanding of culture and language.
As for those that do not try to speak Spanish. Do you not think maybe they DO NOT speak Spanish because they do not know it. Reality is what is sir, and not what is ideal. And in an area that brings in incredible sums of revenue for the country as a whole you would think they would better cater for their guests?
It’s not special treatment people seek just an equal footing in society and justice by actual law and not circumstance and/or corruption.
A man should not be beaten by the police period.
A man should not be left dying at night because he is not a Spanish national and therefor not a priority.
The police should be held accountable for their actions or inactions, it is a government service and I for one have paid my taxes as much as any national has so I do feel I deserve equality AND professionalism in service.
When i am in alqueria our chief of police is wonderfull, what we find anoying are some expats who think everyone should speak english.
If you try a little spanish they will bend over backwards to help if you shout in english i and the kind and pleasent people in our village including our police will say no hable our police are not crooks they are ordinary working men
Sir, unless you are native, even in most cases if you ARE native, I can assure you every member of my home speaks better Spanish than yourself. My wife is proficient to a legal professional level in castilian as well as the local dialect. The area I reside in has a majority of foreigners (confirmed by census) so yes it is not much to expect the local police to speak a “little” English, as indeed they all do here in Moraira.
By the way I do love the way you try to twist and belittle peoples experiences as being their own fault. Your very fortunate, and I am happy for you that you have not had a negative experience in Spain as yet. But please do try to use the brain God gave you, these problems are not peoples imagination or a misunderstanding of culture and language.
As for those that do not try to speak Spanish. Do you not think maybe they DO NOT speak Spanish because they do not know it. Reality is what is sir, and not what is ideal. And in an area that brings in incredible sums of revenue for the country as a whole you would think they would better cater for their guests?
It’s not special treatment people seek just an equal footing in society and justice by actual law and not circumstance and/or corruption.
A man should not be beaten by the police period.
A man should not be left dying at night because he is not a Spanish national and therefor not a priority.
The police should be held accountable for their actions or inactions, it is a government service and I for one have paid my taxes as much as any national has so I do feel I deserve equality AND professionalism in service.
sir
in every country in the world there are corrupt people mainly politicians but also police and imigration police BUT they are a minority not a majority your sucess or failure in any country is by your actions not your nieghbors.
In the uk there is a liberal goverment who are the friends of all imigrants by the goverments actoin britain is finished will spain follow i hope not.
I have just E-mailed cbram personally but I’d like to put it out over the forum as well.
I was involved in a spookily similar incident to the one described by cbram two weeks ago in Guardamar. Its too long a story to go into (I will E-mail directly to you or post it if anyone needs it) but the gist of it was that I tried to make a complaint about an officer after being (mildly) assaulted by them. I was told to go away and as I didn’t I was dragged into a room, beaten up by four officers and then left in very tight handcuffs for over two hours. I still am unable to feel parts of both hands two weeks later. I was eventually charged with assaulting an officer and breaking an officers watch, which did break as he was punching me round the head.
I was given the same advice by a solicitor, who had NO concern for my welfare whatever, to plead guilty and pay a fine. I asked what would happen if I told the truth and pleaded not guilty, to which I was told I would go to prison, for an unspecified amount of time, and await a trial date. Nobody knew where I was, the British Consulate hadn’t been told, I’d had no rights given to me and hadn’t even been told I was under arrest. I chose the first option and paid the fine.
Anyway, when I tried to complain about the officer, I did it under the police station CCTV camera, which appeared to be working, because I could see the monitor through the window. I’ve applied for a copy of the tape through the highest channels and if I can get a copy I intend to fight my case all the way.
As I say, I’ve E-mailed cbram personally, but I don’t know if he’ll receive it. If anyone out there know him and can pass my details on I would be grateful.
Also, if anyone else has had similar bad experience with the Spanish Police, I would love to hear from you, as I intend to bring this situation to the notice of the authorities.
Its quite normal for a person who gives a policia a bit of verbal to get a smack.
Spanish law allows for this and is accepted.
When any person moves to a foreign country, you have to understand you`ve left your way of life behind and accept rules are different.
Whilst this is the 21st Centuary, Spain and her authorities are free to implement there rights, laws and polices.
There is a simple way to avoid problems.
When an officer asks you questions, you show respect and answer clearly, respectfully and with a level of subdewness.
If your from a UK council estate, don`t give a monkeys for anybody and believe you have all the rights in the world to verbally abuse a Policemen, then I`m afraid in Spain you`ll come unstuck.
If you calmly explain the situation and talk nice, you`ll be fine.
dear santi my feelings exactly but on the costas you have a lot of council estate rejects who think the world owes them a living and they oow there rights they deserve what they get
