Warning - Long term rental in Duquesa

there more to this story , could tell us why thay didnt give you back your rental depost that must have give you a Reason

One of most important things to do when you leave an apartment (or other rental) is to do a walk through with the owner or property manager. Take pictures when you leave and both agree to any damages or to the condition of the rental. BEFORE you move in, a walk through should be done (pictures) and note any damages and condition of the rental. The move-in list should be referred to when you leave. See our Normal Wear Tear Guide.
TO GET BACK YOUR SECURITY DEPOSIT - RETURN THE KEYS (avoid a fee); give the landlord your forwarding address (failure to do so may void any "time" rights you have). Use common sense and leave the rental at least "broom clean". If you do not have time to clean, hire a cleaning service. Ask the landlord if they have a cleaning service that they use or suggest.

there some thing fish here ....
not all the people would have the use off a credit card
jurdy

Sorry for not explaining in my first post.

We had the walk through and a damage report stating no damages. We've even had a settlement letter stating exactly how much they owe use. They just refuse to pay us or even tell us why they wont pay us.

will down to the cop and report them for it if all you pape work is up to date and you think you in the right

1 have you have a Receipt of the sum off money you payed to them (Rental depost which is over ?1500)

2 settlement letter stating exactly how much they owe use

3 tell then you going to wright to the local press and media telling them what thay have done to you and you have not got you money back

4 may need to see the loacl town hall about this aswell

jurdy

I know the feeling, The town hall may help.

Didn't think such a large company as Viva would be doing this as well, even though I know they've been having financial problems.

The firm that have stitched me up have allegedly been keeping landlords rent and deposits on properties as well. I'm in 2 minds at the moment as to whether to go the legal route, which after discussing it with 3 seperate lawyers seems to be too expensive and not a guarentee of getting our money back or publishing a website with details of what they have done to me and writing off the ?1500 they owe me.

The added problem we have is that we have now moved back to London.

Whats a 'Denuncia' by the way as I may come out for the day to see if I can resolve this face to face.

A denuncia is an official complaint you make at the local police station. not too complicated, in Marbella for instance they have a translator to help, take any receipts you have, they will photo copy them. Also the local town hall helps, as if they get a load of complaints they wonder whats going on and look into the company. Why should you let the agent keep YOUR money Good luck

It's not so straight forward.

Usually the deposit money is passed on to the owner and the owner keeps it until it has to be returned.

Agencies usually draw up contracts between the tenant and the landlord and the terms are between both with a commission going to the agency.

Once again, this scenario is assuming that Great Estates used the rental model I'm describing.

You should check your rental contract to see what it says about the deposit and where the money goes.

Yes I understand what you mean, however the agent is the person acting on behalf of landlord and tenant and should be responsible for ensuring the deposit is returned. Most leases do not give full details of the landlord, i e address, usually just bank account number for paying the rent, so a tenant would find it almost impossible to contact the landlord direct, back to the agent I think.

All I'm saying is, suppose your an agent and the landlord doesn't want to return the deposit and the tentant is denouncing you. What would do?

Rock and a hard place?

The agency told us they keep the money on behalf of the landlord. We have even exchanged correspondence with the landlord who has said he has tried to get the agent to refund the money owed.

Additionally, the agent hasn't even told us why they will not refund us.

From where I stand, it seems they build this into their business model.

In that case I feel terribly sorry about your situation.

My experience with "Denuncias" (I did live in Spain for 8 Years) is that they are a waste of time. I also had some deposits which where never returned, my wife has been insulted as "Puta Negra" (she is Asian........) and I have been insulted and physically assaulted because my dog did drink in a public fountain. Also I did made a "Denuncia because a Spaniard did consistently block the way out of my house by parking his car on the wrong spot. All Denuncias did end up in nothing, and did provoke much hassle for myself.. :cheese:

But I have to add that this was in Catalunia, from which many say that this is not really Spain.

Re the deposit from property agents in Duquesa. In view of more information made available on this topic. Go to the office with relevant documents and correspondence, ask to use their Complaints Book, all businesses need one BY LAW, if they refuse, you should ring the Guardia, who will come and investigate, also they will check the office is legal. Go armed with the phone number of the guardia. I know this works. If they do let you use the complaints book, it is in English as well as Spanish, quite straightforward, One copy goes to the Town hall who will investigate. Denuncias do work I made one several years ago and the matter went to Court within 6 months, maybe I was just lucky.

Thanks again for your input and advice here.

As I mentioned above, I'm now based in the UK so its proving somewhat difficult to resolve this. However, on a positive note, i've been advised that I can grant power of attorney to a solicitor and they can make the complaint on my behalf.

If this doesn't work, i have actually purchased the .co.uk domain of the website of the company concerned where I plan to expose them for what they are. I know this sounds spiteful but if you had been treated like we have you'd probably want to do something a lot worse...

It sounds like you have no choice but to send the boys round! hehehe

Seriously though, we have good lawyers in Banus if you wanted to give them a call to see if they can take on your case, if the money is rightfully yours then there is no reason why it should be sitting in their bank and not yours!

I have had dealings with Viva in the past and deposits, we did pay on our CC and got our money back within 24 hours - after threatening to get my Credit Card company involved (and I did actually call them) - what a sad state of affairs for your business when you need to take money that didn't belong to you in the first place!

I rent our townhouse in Torreblanca but I don't use agents (waste of time and money for all parties concerned) and we have an inventory (plus a separate account where the deposit money goes) and in that inventory we detail everything down to the knives and forks and also list the price it would cost the renter to replace the item should it be lost/stolen. No arguments that way - it is in black and white for them to see and for me - so when I return the deposit they know exactly how much has been deducted (if need be) and why :)

I feel for you, who needs this kind of stress added to everyday life eh - don't estate agents/letting agents manage to give themselves a bad name for stupid things!!!

Thanks Fruity.

God do I wish we paid by credit card; big mistake on my part!

Its difficult to decide on the best course of action as, even if we do take them to court and win, they could have gone bust by then and we have incurred significant legal costs which aren't warranted considering the claim is for ?1500...

In addition, we had a full inventory checkout done by the agent who have confirmed in writing that there was no damage.

Hinsight would be a wonderful thing wouldn't it - we have all been down that road, don't beat yourself up over it, without learning the lesson this time means you wouldn't have done it the second time either, at least now you will never pay cash again to an estate agent, or anyone else for that matter ;)

You can crawl bank transfers also - sometimes upto 2 years as well

I would start my blog now and just detail everything that happened - this way you won't forget any small details and should you decide to take it further you have everything documented on your blog :)

Don't let them get away with this, it makes me so angry that people do this - if I were you though I would go to their offices with some burly blokes and demand my money and not leave until I get it - don't be bullied.

Have you thought about the local press in Duquesa, they would probably love a story like this one - go for it - make them feel uncomfortable and you might find them calling you offering the money back!

All the best and Good Luck and don't forget about that lawyer, should you need

Yep, have now kicked off the site. Very basic at the moment but plan to add more content over the coming weeks.

www.greatestatesinspain.co.uk

I bought the above url as its the same their own site which is .com

Hopefully it will serve as warning to other potential victims who get financially mugged by this outfit.

Thanks again for all your kind words..

Cool, I would have done the same - a blog would be a good idea too - create more interest - I would also place those bolded items into links to their website, engines will pick this up eventually and you may even come up in the SERPs and then you will be hurting them :)

All the best and kick some real estate behinds!

Thanks again for your advice - i'll def make those changes!

I intend to cost them in sales what they have basically stolen from me...

I have heard so many stories of unreturned deposits in Spain.
I have been here for 6 years now and when i leave my rented houses i do not give the keys back or leave without my deposit.
So far i have had no probs.

Hi ChippyB.. Hope you get this sorted (even if it is just a kick back with the domain site)...
If you were here - I would definatly recommend demanding the 'Hoja de Reclamaciones' - complaint book as above. 1) you can call guardia for back up if they refuse and b) you take the filled in copy to the local Consumer office and it becomes a serious matter - Usually 9/10 times they will go half way with you? (Unless they are stupid - or so thick headed they don't see what they have done wrong!).
Thanks for the tips all - we are renting - and there was no walk thru/photos at all! We do have a good relationship with the landlady - and she has just renewed with us for another year.. But ya never know! (My last landlord has never given me back my deposit - but for Eu300 I was glad to see the back of him!).

Understand CB you may not want to come over for all of this aggro.. but if you are correct - Expose em for all you can!
SJ

Thanks for your comments SJ.

I'm going to make some updates to the site in the next week and will put up your advice. Since i started this thread ive been contacted by so many people who have been stitched up by these criminals. The very sad thing is that there losses are much greater than mine.

Allegedly, they are taking reservations deposits from people with no intention of completing a sale....!

CB..
Re your last message that they are taking deposits with no sale... (I am presuming they are holding onto these deposits?)...
I heard the same about Viva... A friend paid her deposit by Credit Card (luckily)... but... when the property she was chasing was suddenly not available... they held back her deposit for an age! (Saying something like - 'We are just making it convenient/speeding things up for you should you want to put an offer in on another property'). She finally got her deposit credited back.. but only because she is persistent! (None of us knew about the reclamaciones thing then)..

Re the rental thing about Viva too... It really doesn't surprize me... Most businesses with their backs to the wall (or just plain unscrupulous ones) will do anything to keep cash that is not theirs...
~What a sad world we live in...
sj

Ive since found out these people have not paid the landlord of the property we stayed in money he is owed. In their are forums elsewhere where people are saying they have lost money by putting down deposits on properties that have no chance of completing and they just hold onto the money.

If its true then I call that theft.

I beleive a whole bunch of the affected people are contacting watchdog, british consulate etc. The aim is to instigate criminal proceedings I think...

CB - Did you say at sometime they were Germans? If so, I would definatly contact the German Consulate too... (More bases covered, more chance of xxx).
I am not 100% sure about this bit.. but perhaps someone here can advise -
I know if you wish to walk into the local judicial court (Is there one in Estepona?) about a Civil Matter - (and do so within a year of the said event) - you can make a denuncia direct to the court - and the matter will then be heard in the local court - All parties are told to attend (they are breaking the law and can face a fine and jail if they ommit to turn up). You need good Spanish of course (or take an interpretuer).. I was just about to do this as a car ran us off the road (causing damage to our car). But you can do it for any matter where a criminal* or civil matter has occurred. I think you said you had made a denuncia to the local police at the time>? - (If not - perhaps do this - as it all add weight to your case - If you can - get the ex-land lord to go and either make his own denuncia that they are holding back his money - or get him named as a witness in your denuncia. Although if he is not declaring this as legal income then he might be relucant).

I know this means a visit here again.. but just trying to put another spin on things.

*In the case of a definate criminal matter- (in fact the driver of the other vehicle in our case turned his car over, left it in the middle of the road then ran away??!!)... the denuncia to the court has to be in within 6 months of the incident. But I think you should be OK with a civil matter in your case.

Good luck!
sj

I am also the victim of Great
Estates no return of deposit policy I am now in the process of begining legal action against them here's hoping other potential renters find this forum before they contribute to this real estates cofers.

Rumour is they have shut up shop and setting up another company to stitch a whole bunch of new people....

just returned from duquesa on a mission to retrieve our rental deposit office closed definitely gone bankrupt. spoke to a spanish lawyer who said all of us should get together to sort situation and stop him doing it again.

some of this people will re open under some outher name again and do the same and con people out there money ..... so any pree about them yet ? time off the news area any one what to pm me about then and i do pice on them need full facts about them please

My Abogado has advised me that, should they set up another company, as creditors we can persue them for the money they owe us.

jurdyr, im not sure if you're an Abogado or a journalist - either way, details of my experience can be found at http://www.greatestatesinspain.co.uk/

> there more to this story , could tell us why thay didnt give you back your rental depost that must have give you a Reason

One of most important things to do when you leave an apartment (or other rental) is to do a walk through with the owner or property manager. Take pictures when you leave and both agree to any damages or to the condition of the rental. BEFORE you move in, a walk through should be done (pictures) and note any damages and condition of the rental. The move-in list should be referred to when you leave. See our Normal Wear Tear Guide.
TO GET BACK YOUR SECURITY DEPOSIT - RETURN THE KEYS (avoid a fee); give the landlord your forwarding address (failure to do so may void any "time" rights you have). Use common sense and leave the rental at least "broom clean". If you do not have time to clean, hire a cleaning service. Ask the landlord if they have a cleaning service that they use or suggest.

there some thing fish here ....
not all the people would have the use off a credit card
jurdy

Hi

Its 2010 and my lad has just been refused his cash deposit back of 1100E . The apartment was left spotless. I know because i cleaned it. She refused point blank to give him his deposit back even when i had a word with her. She kept making him give another months notice and told him that he could not afford to go elsewhere. Well he did go elsewhere and for 200 E cheaper than her flat. Its been months now and the flat is still not rented.
The estate agent that my son used was Key Home estates in Duquesa
He never gave her the keys back because she would not refund the deposit. On another expat site there are many accounts of estate agents refusing to give deposits back.