ROB1305 - 25 July 2009 10:34 PM

Under EU law . you are perfectly legal to drive in Spain as a resident on a valid British licence providing it is the ID type. The DVLC do not accept a change of address when you move abroad ie so you can’t have a UK licence with a Spanish address. But you also have to comply with Spanish law regarding the health test - this you will need to take:

http://www.dgt.es/portal/es/oficina_virtual/dir_telefonos/centros_rec_conductores/?tit=?D?ndesepuedesolicitar?

using this page you should be able to find your local centres.

When your UK licence expires you must then apply for a Spanish licence.

Or you can voluntarily apply to hand in your UK licence and get a Spanish one at any time prior to its expiration.

Following what I had read and advice I was given on these forums, this evening I went to the drivers medical centre in Caballeros de Rodas in Torrevieja, to a pre-arranged appointment. I wanted a medical to make driving here on my UK/EU photo licence legal.
When, after queueing for 45 minutes, I eventually got to the counter, I explained to the senora that I wanted to take a medical that would allow me to drive legally in Spain. She told me that I did not need the medical to drive on my EU photo licence. I said I did need a medical to comply with Spanish law which says it is OK to drive on an EU/UK licence provided you undergo the same medical checks as a spaniard. NO. NO.NO. She said beginning to get quite agitated. I stood my ground and reiterated what I had said previously. With this the lady started to really flip. “I know the law in spain” she shouted, now waving her despatch papers “Here is the law, nobody does this!!!”. I’m sorry senora, but they do. BOOOOOOOOOM !!!!!!!!!!!!
By this time the rest of the spaniards behind me in the queue are starting to get agitated. The little senora is throwing papers about “NO NECESSARIO” “NO NECESSARIO”.
So I thought, there’s only one way out of this and that’s behind me, the door.
Who is right? Torrevieja has a massive British community. This centre is one of only two in the area. Can it really be that no other Brit has taken this medical? Where should I go from here?
There is just no way that they will do that medical at that centre.

Well that is where I took my test (albeit a while ago) because I decided to switch to a Spanish licence and it is definitely needed for that, but she (no idea if it was the same lady) did not know that it was for a Spanish licence application.

If she had something on paper about the law pity you didn’t get a copy, I am actually amazed she just didn’t let you take it and take your money.

This from the Alicante residents site
From 1 July 1996, drivers from EU countries can drive with their original licence as long as it is valid and has not expired. However, the country of residence may apply its own national conditions in relation to validity period, medical check-ups and taxes, and can record on the licence any other information that is required for administrative purposes.
http://www.residenteseuropeos.com/permisoconducir_en.php

I still the safest thing to do is go Spanish DL.

The thing is Rob that there is no form in existence for them to fill out to cover this particular medical.
I am non-resident. An early retiree. I do, however, spend varying long periods here, own a vehicle and have had a house here for over twenty years. I have health insurance here. I went to see a lawyer in Torrevieja about taking residency and she told me that as I was well under retirement age there was absolutely no advantage in me having resident status. I would not qualify for heathcare, until I am 65 and would simply have to pay tax on my worldwide income here in Spain instead of the UK, so I decided not to bother.
Anyway I digress. In my circumstances I want to retain my EU/UK picture card licence, I’m non-resident and in these circumstances there is no form available for them to fill in at the medical centre. So the only thing to do is what they do with the smoking laws, ignore it until you are MADE to do something different.

donkeyoatay - 06 October 2009 10:34 PM

donkeyoatay - 02 October 2009 12:21 PM

Hi Robi. I am off to Trafico in Malaga next week to change my UK license for a Spanish one. As I wrote above I visited them this week to get the required papers but have two questions.

I will be 71 this month and will present my papers before my 71st birthday. Do I need to get a medical before, so that I can present the certificate at the same time?

On the application form for the license change n? 6 says “Tal?n foto: cumplimentado y firmado dentro del recuadro correspondiente”. Can someone please explain what this means. Duly signed where?

OK. As I said above I have decided to go for a Spanish license. I have the papers from Trafico. I paid ?25:00 for a medical certificate without seeing a doctor and was able to get some fotos done. Trafico require size 32x25mm but I could not find any photographer who did this size on their automatic printers. I have had to settle for a larger size that has to be cut down.

Now that I am ready to present everything to Trafico in Malaga, I have been reliably informed, that when my new Spanish license is ready for posting back to me, the address on my Residencia has to be used. No apartado postal is accepted. What am I supposed to do. I live in the campo where there is no mail delivery and therefore must use an AP address to get my mail. In the case of my residencia the address used was that on my empadronamiento and I collected in person the card from the main police in Malaga. The address therefore on my residencia means very little as it is for a plot number in a zone in the municiplity where I live.

Has anyone been successful in changing their UK license and having the new Spanish license returned to an apartado postal address. If this new information is in fact the case, I will have to hang on to my UK license or I will be without one. I will however, re visit Trafico in Malaga tomorrow to see exactly what is the current situation re. addresses. I will post back when I have some more information

I have just returned from Trafico Malaga and have the following to report.

Before paying ?26:00 for a tasa I asked for confirmation that, if I paid and submitted my papers, old license etc. that they could send the new one to my apartado postal address, or if I could collect it in person. The answer from the cash window was a NO. I asked if I could speak with a supervisor and was directed to window 13 where I waited 15 mins to speak with Carmen. This lady informed that there would be no problem as she could put both addresses on my application which should resolve the problem.

I then returned to the cash desk to pay the ?26:00 and returned to window 13 to find that Carmen had closed up. A security guard to whom I had spoken with earlier said he would try and find her for me. 10 mins or so later Carmen is back. Before going to trafico I prepared all papers as requested a couple of days before. I even took copies of everything, and to make sure took my UK pasport, the original of my Empadamiento and the originals of my last two UK driving licenses. The first thing Carmen asked for was the green form from the DVLA n?, F8113954 Counterpart Driving License. This I did not have as it was not on the list of required items.

I told Carmen that if I had this form at home I could return tomorrow with it. She said it was not important at this stage as I could bring it in the future when I will be requested to re visit Trafico again. To my surprise the only papers that were required were the application form, sight of my residencia and the two parts of the medical certificate. The latter concerned me as, as we all know, there is a Yellow Medical card for the applicant and a white version for Trafico, both have photos. Carmen insisted that she keep both and my copy would be returned in the future. I was asked to leave my telephone number, which was written on my application, and was told that I would get a call in about 2/3 months. My photos were not retained and only after I insisted did I get a sort of stamped receipt to state that I had paid ?26:00 and had submitted my application.This receipt is called Solicitud de canje del permiso do conducci?n.

I have to say that I am not too optimistic that I will ever get my Spanish license. During my visit I met with a Dutch gentleman who was returning after 5 months waiting for his license only to be told that everything had disappeared, including his original Dutch license. I just get the impression that nobody really cares and that they have no idea what the procedure really is.

When I arrived back home I fortunately found the DVLA green Counterpart License so will return with it again tomorrow, and also see if I can retrieve my copy of the medical certificate and get them to take my photos, so that my Spanish license can be processed. In the meantime I would be most grateful if someone who has recently presented their application form and papers for a license change, can confirm if it was a different procedure from mine or the same.

Jak - if you are non-resident you are not entitled to a Spanish driving licence.

Some of the other comments I do not agree with, but it does depend how long you stay in Spain and what future you are planning. You might actually find paying tax in Spain is less onerous than paying in the UK and that waiting until you are 65 to become resident is disadvantageous, but its up to you.

Yes Jak, as stated in the above post, as a non-resident you are completely legal to drive on your UK licence, without having a medical or going through any other procedure.  I think most of the doubts on here are from people who are permanently living and resident here in Spain, but using a UK licence.  As I posted a couple of weeks ago, I spoke with a Sergeant of the Guardia Civil who told me that I didn?t have to do anything as my UK licence, being a EU country, is completely legal.  When my photocard licence expires in a couple of years, the DVLA will not allow me to get a new one using a Spanish address and I will therefore have to apply for a Spanish licence.  Until then however, I?ve been ensured that I?m fine with the one I?ve got.

I never said I wanted a Spanish Licence, Rob.
All I want to do is drive within the law in Spain. I have read that to do this on a UK/EU licence, for any period of time, requires one to submit to a medical, in the same way as Spaniards have to. So, I submitted myself at the driver medical centre and contrary to what I have read on here, I have been told that it is not necessary for me to have a medical and indeed there is not even a form in existence to comply with this ‘law’(?)
All I want someone to do is to tell me if they KNOW that the medical is necessary and to give me some guidance as to what law applies. If they don’t know the best think is to say they don’t know and not to pass on sometthing Fred, George or Mildred told them over a few glasses of vino.
Spain is full of barrack room lawyers.
There has been a lot written on this site about requirements for the medical, in my circumstances. Does ANYONE actually KNOW that it is the case that a medical is required to drive in Spain on a UK licence, if you are non-resident????

laurainspain - 07 October 2009 08:35 PM

Yes Jak, as stated in the above post, as a non-resident you are completely legal to drive on your UK licence, without having a medical or going through any other procedure.  I think most of the doubts on here are from people who are permanently living and resident here in Spain, but using a UK licence.  As I posted a couple of weeks ago, I spoke with a Sergeant of the Guardia Civil who told me that I didn?t have to do anything as my UK licence, being a EU country, is completely legal.  When my photocard licence expires in a couple of years, the DVLA will not allow me to get a new one using a Spanish address and I will therefore have to apply for a Spanish licence.  Until then however, I?ve been ensured that I?m fine with the one I?ve got.

Muchas Gracias Laura. At last, a voice of wisdom.

No the grand debate does not involve non-residents, that’s why I said as a non-resident Spanish DLs don’t apply which is what the debate is about.

Sorry Rob, wires crossed and all that.

jak - 07 October 2009 12:44 AM

NO. NO.NO. She said beginning to get quite agitated. I stood my ground and reiterated what I had said previously. With this the lady started to really flip. “I know the law in spain” she shouted, now waving her despatch papers “Here is the law, nobody does this!!!”. I’m sorry senora, but they do. BOOOOOOOOOM !!!!!!!!!!!!
By this time the rest of the spaniards behind me in the queue are starting to get agitated. The little senora is throwing papers about “NO NECESSARIO” “NO NECESSARIO”.
So I thought, there’s only one way out of this and that’s behind me, the door.
Who is right? Torrevieja has a massive British community. This centre is one of only two in the area. Can it really be that no other Brit has taken this medical? Where should I go from here?
There is just no way that they will do that medical at that centre.

Spaniards behind a desk hate being told there jobs.

I`d go back stating that your Solicitor requires her contact details at the office, so that if you get pulled by the law she can be contacted and summons to court as a witness and defence of any prosecution.

Just lie a bit, then insist on the medical, its not her concern or place to advise the legalities of the law, her position is to simply book you in and give the medical.

This is why Spain is a mess of admin, everybody wants to be boss.

I don`t think anybody in my Spanish family has every admitted to being a simple worker, there all managers, supervisers etc.

Not that its true, they just lie about it.

My cousin got a job fixing machines in a factory, within weeks of starting my uncle was tellin everyone he is now the manager the Engineers.

Even guys I worked with where either Senior Engineers or Union Supervisors, I think I was the only Engineer out of 18 guys.

jak - 07 October 2009 08:48 PM

Sorry Rob, wires crossed and all that.

Hey no problem, just trying to save you from stress!

I have now asked a solicitor (Spanish) friend of mine to try and get a definitive answer…..

[/quote]

I have just returned from Trafico Malaga and have the following to report.

Before paying ?26:00 for a tasa I asked for confirmation that, if I paid and submitted my papers, old license etc. that they could send the new one to my apartado postal address, or if I could collect it in person. The answer from the cash window was a NO. I asked if I could speak with a supervisor and was directed to window 13 where I waited 15 mins to speak with Carmen. This lady informed that there would be no problem as she could put both addresses on my application which should resolve the problem.

I then returned to the cash desk to pay the ?26:00 and returned to window 13 to find that Carmen had closed up. A security guard to whom I had spoken with earlier said he would try and find her for me. 10 mins or so later Carmen is back. Before going to trafico I prepared all papers as requested a couple of days before. I even took copies of everything, and to make sure took my UK pasport, the original of my Empadamiento and the originals of my last two UK driving licenses. The first thing Carmen asked for was the green form from the DVLA n?, F8113954 Counterpart Driving License. This I did not have as it was not on the list of required items.

I told Carmen that if I had this form at home I could return tomorrow with it. She said it was not important at this stage as I could bring it in the future when I will be requested to re visit Trafico again. To my surprise the only papers that were required were the application form, sight of my residencia and the two parts of the medical certificate. The latter concerned me as, as we all know, there is a Yellow Medical card for the applicant and a white version for Trafico, both have photos. Carmen insisted that she keep both and my copy would be returned in the future. I was asked to leave my telephone number, which was written on my application, and was told that I would get a call in about 2/3 months. My photos were not retained and only after I insisted did I get a sort of stamped receipt to state that I had paid ?26:00 and had submitted my application.This receipt is called Solicitud de canje del permiso do conducci?n.

I have to say that I am not too optimistic that I will ever get my Spanish license. During my visit I met with a Dutch gentleman who was returning after 5 months waiting for his license only to be told that everything had disappeared, including his original Dutch license. I just get the impression that nobody really cares and that they have no idea what the procedure really is.

When I arrived back home I fortunately found the DVLA green Counterpart License so will return with it again tomorrow, and also see if I can retrieve my copy of the medical certificate and get them to take my photos, so that my Spanish license can be processed. In the meantime I would be most grateful if someone who has recently presented their application form and papers for a license change, can confirm if it was a different procedure from mine or the same.[/quote]

I revisited Trafico again on Friday but before doing so, I rang Trafico Central in Madrid to try and confirm exactly what procedure should have been adopted during my last visit to Trafico Malaga. Fortunately I was attended by a very “simpatica” who explained every thing in detail. She suggested that when I arrived at Trafico Malaga I should request a meeting with the head of the license dept. or failing that the Director.

When I arrived, after a lot of hassle I was eventually given a badge and allowed to meet with the head of licensing. I was again fortunate to find an extremely nice lady who, having explained the current procedure for changing my UK license for a Spanish one promised to personally look after my application.

I can only report what was required in my case. The most important document that was needed was the green UK Counterpart paper license that will be returned to the DVLA to confirm if the license holder has any points on their license.  Only after this confirmation is received will the process of changing the licenses be completed. Both parts of my medical certificate were retained as was a copy of my residencia. No photos were taken, but as explained to me the medical certificate has one so that Trafico can use that.

My new contact said that she would ring me before Christmas when my new license is ready and to avoid any problems with my address she would personally hand it to when I gave in my UK license. Well what can I say. Let’s see what happens in a couple of months. I have to say that I would not have been able to have done the above without being to communicate well in Spanish.

I dug out this link to the EU Directives stating the legal requirements and also stating that National Laws are applied to each EU member state.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=31991L0439&model=guichett

This I copied from above about Residency status and how to confirm,

Article 9

For the purpose of this Directive, ‘normal’ residence means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calender year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties, because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.

However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly. This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.

The EU issued the “Community Model Driving License” for use accross the EU, ie one license for all, currently there are 88 different styles.

In 2012 it will reduce, this is copied from the above link, but explaining that the license will be issued in the Birth Country of holder and will allow country of residency info and allow penalties for all EU members.

national codes valid only for driving in the territory of the State which issued the licence.

The date of first issue of the licence for each category must be transferred to page 3 in the event of subsequent replacement or exchange;

page 5 may contain information such as:

-any periods during which the driving licence has been suspended,

-serious offences committed in the territory of the State of normal residence and taken into account in the procedure for monitoring drivers which obtains in that State;

page 6 shall contain:

-validations restricted to the territory of the State which granted them on grounds of equivalents or for categories of vehicles not covered by this Directive (including dates of issue and periods of validity),

-spaces reserved for (optional) entry of changes in the holder’s normal residence.

3.The entries on pages other than page 1 shall be in the language(s) of the Member States which issued the licence.

This expalins the differences and all the info you require regarding rules !!!!!!

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/home/drivinglicence/principles/001_en.htm

The above link states you no longer need to exchange the license when becoming resident, i`ve added it here

Mutual recognition

1. The principle

Article 1(2) of Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates that all driving licences have to be mutually recognised within the European Union. Where the holder of a valid driving licence acquires “normal residence” in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host country has to recognise the licence.

Directive 80/1263/EEC laid down a period of one year during which the exchange had to be carried out by the authorities of the state of residence. This obligation has been abolished since 1 July 1996, the date of entry into force of Directive 91/439/EEC. It is still possible to exchange licences but it has to be based on a purely voluntary action on the part of the licence holder.

At the time of the exchange, the Member State in which the holder has acquired normal residence issues a Community model licence of the corresponding category or categories, without the need for a theoretical or practical examination. Authorities must however check that the licence is valid.

2. Exceptions

Article 1(3) of Directive 91/439/EEC establishes an exception to this general principle of mutual recognition. It is noted that ? Where the holder of a valid national driving licence takes up normal residence in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host Member State may apply to the holder of the licence its national rules on the period of validity of the licence, medical checks and tax arrangements and may enter on the licence any information indispensable for administration. ?

With regard to the period of validity of driving licences, Directive 91/439/EEC therefore allows Member States to apply their national provisions. In practice, the validity arrangements vary from one Member State to another. This means that a different period of validity, shorter for example, can be applied to the holder of a licence, in the event of change of residence.
With regard to the interval between medical examinations, this has not been harmonised by Community legislation. In the majority of the Member States, it coincides with the period of validity.
Driving licences issued by a non-member country and recognised by a Member State, are not recognised reciprocally in a systematic manner, even in the eventual case that the licence has been exchanged for a Community model in the meantime. It is therefore advisable to contact the competent national authorities.
Member States are not obliged to recognise driving licences issued to persons aged under 18.[/color]

So as stated above in the 1st paragraph Spain can and does inforce its National Rules.

Spains rules for drivers under the age of 45yrs your license is valid for 10 yrs, from the date of issue and requires a medical.

Therefore you don`t need to replace your UK License, but it does need to comply with Spanish law regarding medical and periods of validity.

Simple then.

My new contact said that she would ring me before Christmas when my new license is ready and to avoid any problems with my address she would personally hand it to when I gave in my UK license. Well what can I say. Let’s see what happens in a couple of months. I have to say that I would not have been able to have done the above without being to communicate well in Spanish.

I refer to my post above re. applying for a Spanish driving license.

Is this a record? My new Spanish license arrived on Friday at my apartado postal address exactly one month after applying for it. I had expected to wait months. I am lost for words.