2 of 4
2
Spanish citizenship by descent (process)
Posted: 17 August 2010 02:37 PM  
Just Landed
Total Posts:  21
Joined  2010-02-25

@Gabriel:  No the relative doesn´t need to be alive.

@aritz:  Do i need anything more than the birth certificates of my grandmother, mother, and myself? Do i need my grandmother´s marriage certificate. My mom wasn´t married to my dad, so there´s no marriage certificate for her. Do i need my grandmother´s death certificate as well?

Thanks!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 August 2010 07:37 PM  
Expatriator
Total Posts:  453
Joined  2008-12-30

perejil,
as far as i know,
i think, just try to get the ff
your american birth certificate, apostilled, officially translated into spanish.
your mother’s american birth certificated apostilled, officially translated, and spanish birth certificate issued by the consulate.
your grandmother’s spanish birth certificate.
if you want to get your grandma’s american marriage and death certificates, get them, but have them apostilled and translated and register your grandma’s marriage and death at the consulate, if they do registher them, they will issue you a spanish marriage & death certificate equivalent.

when the time comes for you to apply for citizenship you will be told what you do not need to include in the application.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 August 2010 03:49 PM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  10
Joined  2010-06-24

Hi,

Interesting discussion.

My father was born in Spain, emigrated to the US, and became a US citizen.  I don’t think he ever renounced his Spanish citizenship, he just never renewed his passport.

I was born in the US.

I looked into acquiring Spanish citizenship about ten years ago and I thought then that if I did as an adult, I would renounce my US citizenship.  Maybe that was not true.

Anyway, I also explored the process.  I have my father’s Spanish birth certificate.

I have mine, too.

However, at the time of naturalizing, my father anglicized his name and swapped his maternal surname to his US middle name.

So, for example,
Jose Torres i Campos became

Joe Torres Campos.

So, there is no official document linking me to the name my father was given at birth. 

Anyone ever heard of this?  Is there a way around it?

He has deceased, to complicate things.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 25 August 2010 07:54 PM  
Expatriator
Total Posts:  453
Joined  2008-12-30
Jordi Comas - 25 August 2010 03:49 PM

Hi,

Interesting discussion.

My father was born in Spain, emigrated to the US, and became a US citizen.  I don’t think he ever renounced his Spanish citizenship, he just never renewed his passport.
I was born in the US.
I looked into acquiring Spanish citizenship about ten years ago and I thought then that if I did as an adult, I would renounce my US citizenship.  Maybe that was not true.
Anyway, I also explored the process.  I have my father’s Spanish birth certificate.
I have mine, too.
However, at the time of naturalizing, my father anglicized his name and swapped his maternal surname to his US middle name.
So, for example,
Jose Torres i Campos became
Joe Torres Campos.
So, there is no official document linking me to the name my father was given at birth. 
Anyone ever heard of this?  Is there a way around it?
He has deceased, to complicate things.

well,
you do not have to renounce your usa citizenship.
let us just say your father as an american was mr x and as a spaniard he was mr y.
as long as you can prove thru documentation that mr x = mr y there should not be any problems.
the consulate will inform you what documents they need, and if they should be apostilled.
if everything is ok, you will fill in your spanish birth certificate and later you can be issued your spanish passport and when you come over to spain, you dni and sss number.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 August 2010 09:44 AM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  10
Joined  2010-06-24

Thanks.  Your Mr. X and Mr. Y is right as a description. 

I am not sure how to document that.

I would fill out a Spanish birth certificate?  I mean, I was born in the US.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 August 2010 11:38 AM  
Expatriator
Total Posts:  453
Joined  2008-12-30
Jordi Comas - 30 August 2010 09:44 AM

Thanks.  Your Mr. X and Mr. Y is right as a description. 
I am not sure how to document that.
I would fill out a Spanish birth certificate?  I mean, I was born in the US.

first try if you can find his old spanish passports or dni.
then check if has registered himself as a spaniard residing in the usa in a spanish consulate.
then you can get his old green cards,or drivers licence or state ids, sss, when he was just a resident.
then you can look for his naturalization papers. and or documents he signed changing his name.
then his usa passports, state id’s where his new name is shown.
that should prove he is the same person.

you will be issued a spanish birth certificate (indicating you are spanish citizen, born in the usa). spaniards having children outside spain register their new born kids with the consulate as spaniards by filling in the spanish consulate birth certificate form, adults will have to register themselves, who knows,  maybe your father registered your birth at the consulate, you can find out.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 October 2010 06:02 PM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  6
Joined  2010-04-28

I went to the Spanish consulate today to request citizenship by the Law of Historical Memory, provision 1 (option of spanish citizenship by origin) as my father was born to Spanish parents.  I showed my father’s US birth cirtificate (to spanish parents, as stated on the certificate) and originals of my grandmother’s birth certificate from the Spanish Civil Registry as well as her US Naturalization papers in 1954.  The consulate official stated that the lineage has to be through the father only, not the mother.  I don’t believe this is correct—this specific statement is not in the Law of Historical Memory that I can see.  Does anyone have knowledge of such a provision for Spanish citizenship?

aritz - 30 April 2010 12:01 AM

pzck,
if they returned to spain before the civil war and left spain during or after the civil war, you may be eligible for citizenship according to the historical memory law. it is a two year process and may be extended a year or so. the dates or their arrival in the usa would be reflected in their passports.
if they went to spain after your father was born, he may have been registed as a spaniard in the spanish consulate.  your father needed a passport ( either a spanish or american)  to travel with them or his name would have been written on one of the pages of your grandparents passports and you can deduce what this means.
the dni number was used as a passport number until the issuance of the machine readable passports recently.
if they officially renounced, this would be anotated in their birth certificates or with the consulate.
i would assume then that your father was born when they were still spanish citizens in the usa, so he would be by birth both american and spaniard.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2010 01:33 AM  
Expatriator
Total Posts:  453
Joined  2008-12-30
pzck - 14 October 2010 06:02 PM

I went to the Spanish consulate today to request citizenship by the Law of Historical Memory, provision 1 (option of spanish citizenship by origin) as my father was born to Spanish parents.  I showed my father’s US birth cirtificate (to spanish parents, as stated on the certificate) and originals of my grandmother’s birth certificate from the Spanish Civil Registry as well as her US Naturalization papers in 1954.  The consulate official stated that the lineage has to be through the father only, not the mother.

the consul must be refering to another law.
if you can read spanish, read this
¿Quiénes pueden optar a la nacionalidad española de acuerdo con lo dispuesto en la Ley 52/2007, de 26 de diciembre?
La Disposición Adicional Séptima de la citada ley prescribe lo siguiente:
  1. “Las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiese sido originariamente español podrán optar a la nacionalidad española de origen si formalizan su declaración en el plazo de dos años desde la entrada en vigor de la presente Disposición adicional. Dicho plazo podrá ser prorrogado por acuerdo de Consejo de Ministros hasta el límite de un año.
  2. Este derecho también se reconocerá a los nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad española como consecuencia del exilio”.
so there.
if your father’s birth was not registered at the embassy, you can apply for his late registration.  he would then be “de origen” because both his parents were still spaniards when he was born. therefore, he could pass the citizenship to you according to the law of historical memory. i read this somewhere but read it again to be sure.
get all info from this link
http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Consulares/SolicitudNacionalidad/Paginas/SolicitudNacionalidad.aspx
move fast because this law will expire in december 2011, documentation takes a long time.

i think you fall under the ff provision

B. Personas incluidas en el párrafo 2º de la D.A. 7ª de la Ley 52/2007 (nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad española como consecuencia del exilio):

  1. Solicitud de opción a la nacionalidad española de origen (Anexo II).

  2. Certificación literal de nacimiento del interesado, expedida por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero, legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, según los artículos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil.

    El Registro local extranjero debería informar al interesado acerca de cuál es la oficina del país de su residencia en el extranjero encargada de legalizar los documentos extranjeros o de poner la “Apostilla de La Haya”, en su caso, para que dichos documentos puedan ser admitidos en las Embajadas y Consulados Generales de España .

  3. Certificación literal de nacimiento de su padre o madre, expedido por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero (legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, según los artículos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil ) o por un Registro Civil español (Consular o Municipal). Este certificado pretende únicamente relacionar el padre o la madre con el abuelo o la abuela.

  4. Certificación literal de nacimiento del abuelo o abuela español/a del solicitante, expedida por un Registro Civil español (Consular o Municipal). Igual que en el caso anterior, si hubieran nacido antes de 1870, podrán aportar una certificación de bautismo.

    NOTA.- Las certificaciones literales que soliciten los Registros Civiles Consulares no es necesario que tengan menos de tres meses desde su expedición, ya que sólo serán utilizadas para probar la filiación de los interesados con respecto a sus padres y abuelos, no para solicitar un Documento Nacional de Identidad, en cuyo caso sí es imprescindible que la certificación literal se haya expedido con una antelación máxima de tres meses.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2010 06:26 PM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  6
Joined  2010-04-28
aritz - 30 April 2010 12:01 AM

pzck,
if they returned to spain before the civil war and left spain during or after the civil war, you may be eligible for citizenship according to the historical memory law. it is a two year process and may be extended a year or so. the dates or their arrival in the usa would be reflected in their passports.
if they went to spain after your father was born, he may have been registed as a spaniard in the spanish consulate.  your father needed a passport ( either a spanish or american)  to travel with them or his name would have been written on one of the pages of your grandparents passports and you can deduce what this means.
the dni number was used as a passport number until the issuance of the machine readable passports recently.
if they officially renounced, this would be anotated in their birth certificates or with the consulate.
i would assume then that your father was born when they were still spanish citizens in the usa, so he would be by birth both american and spaniard.

Dear Aritz,

I don’t believe they registered my father’s birth with the consulate. My father isn’t alive but he stated he never had Spanish citizenship.  My grandparents did return to Spain after he was born, but I believe my grandmother needed a visa to return to Spain, which is confusing since she wasn’t naturalized in the US until 1954.  It sounds like I need a recent official copy of her birth certificate to see when Spanish citizenship was renounced (the birth certificate I have doesn’t mention anything).  Has anyone heard though that only the father confers citizenship, not the mother (even when they are both Spanish by origin)?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2010 06:36 PM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  6
Joined  2010-04-28

Aritz,

Thanks again for all of your help.  We did proceed based on the information from the website, and brought originals of the documentation we had.  We don’t have my grandfather’s naturalization information (do have his Spanish birth certificate) but did show my grandmother’s, but they wouldn’t accept hers, with the lineage issue aforementioned (males only).  The consular official was very friendly, but insisted it had to be from the father.  We are using provision 1 of 52/2007, not 2 (exile) since my grandparents weren’t exiled to our knowledge. 

aritz - 15 October 2010 01:33 AM
pzck - 14 October 2010 06:02 PM

I went to the Spanish consulate today to request citizenship by the Law of Historical Memory, provision 1 (option of spanish citizenship by origin) as my father was born to Spanish parents.  I showed my father’s US birth cirtificate (to spanish parents, as stated on the certificate) and originals of my grandmother’s birth certificate from the Spanish Civil Registry as well as her US Naturalization papers in 1954.  The consulate official stated that the lineage has to be through the father only, not the mother.

 

the consul must be refering to another law.
if you can read spanish, read this
¿Quiénes pueden optar a la nacionalidad española de acuerdo con lo dispuesto en la Ley 52/2007, de 26 de diciembre?
La Disposición Adicional Séptima de la citada ley prescribe lo siguiente:
  1. “Las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiese sido originariamente español podrán optar a la nacionalidad española de origen si formalizan su declaración en el plazo de dos años desde la entrada en vigor de la presente Disposición adicional. Dicho plazo podrá ser prorrogado por acuerdo de Consejo de Ministros hasta el límite de un año.
  2. Este derecho también se reconocerá a los nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad española como consecuencia del exilio”.
so there.
if your father’s birth was not registered at the embassy, you can apply for his late registration.  he would then be “de origen” because both his parents were still spaniards when he was born. therefore, he could pass the citizenship to you according to the law of historical memory. i read this somewhere but read it again to be sure.
get all info from this link
http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Consulares/SolicitudNacionalidad/Paginas/SolicitudNacionalidad.aspx
move fast because this law will expire in december 2011, documentation takes a long time.

i think you fall under the ff provision

B. Personas incluidas en el párrafo 2º de la D.A. 7ª de la Ley 52/2007 (nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad española como consecuencia del exilio):

  1. Solicitud de opción a la nacionalidad española de origen (Anexo II).

  2. Certificación literal de nacimiento del interesado, expedida por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero, legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, según los artículos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil.

    El Registro local extranjero debería informar al interesado acerca de cuál es la oficina del país de su residencia en el extranjero encargada de legalizar los documentos extranjeros o de poner la “Apostilla de La Haya”, en su caso, para que dichos documentos puedan ser admitidos en las Embajadas y Consulados Generales de España .

  3. Certificación literal de nacimiento de su padre o madre, expedido por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero (legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, según los artículos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil ) o por un Registro Civil español (Consular o Municipal). Este certificado pretende únicamente relacionar el padre o la madre con el abuelo o la abuela.

  4. Certificación literal de nacimiento del abuelo o abuela español/a del solicitante, expedida por un Registro Civil español (Consular o Municipal). Igual que en el caso anterior, si hubieran nacido antes de 1870, podrán aportar una certificación de bautismo.

    NOTA.- Las certificaciones literales que soliciten los Registros Civiles Consulares no es necesario que tengan menos de tres meses desde su expedición, ya que sólo serán utilizadas para probar la filiación de los interesados con respecto a sus padres y abuelos, no para solicitar un Documento Nacional de Identidad, en cuyo caso sí es imprescindible que la certificación literal se haya expedido con una antelación máxima de tres meses.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 January 2011 10:22 AM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2011-01-06

YOU idea is good, thanks you.

 Signature 

buy cheap world of warcraft gold goto wow gold site.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 March 2011 03:46 AM  
Just Landed
Total Posts:  21
Joined  2010-02-25

Hey again,

It took us DUKE NUKEM FOREVER to get my grandma’s birth certificate from the civil registry in Puerto Rico, but we finally have it. However, it is the EXTRACT of the birth certificate, not the long form, which is typically used/requested in immigration/naturalization/descendant situations. The civil registry in PR said that tons of people had used the birth certificate extracts to recover Spanish nationality, but they will usually say just about whatever to get you to piss off. My question is - has anyone really used the extract and not the long form when becoming a Spanish citizen by descent? I mean, i have a copy of the original, long form, but it’s not certified or anything like the extract is.

Thanks!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 April 2011 11:55 PM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  6
Joined  2010-04-28

Could anyone recommend immigration attorneys that are versed on “Ley de la Memoria Historica” who reside in Spain?  Thank you.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2011 11:09 AM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2011-07-30

Can a person apply to spanish visa if his brother/ sister has a spanish citizen?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 January 2012 09:11 AM  
Tourist
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2012-01-24

I’m looking for similar information—

I’m eligible for dual American and Dominican citizenship, which I can claim at any time though I am only an American citizen at the moment. I would like to claim Dominican citizenship so that I can go about claiming the two year naturalization citizenship Spain offers. I’ve been offered a spot at a university for graduate school, which would mean I could complete my graduate studies while living in Spain for the two years, assuming that it’s okay to use a student visa to become a naturalized citizen. Does anyone know any further details about this, or how I would go about claiming naturalized citizenship (any rules in regards to visas I may or may not be allowed to have while living there for the two years, etc)? I know that the UK has specific rules about people claiming naturalization—more specifically rules against using student visas to do so—so I just want to make sure that I would go about this properly.

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 4
2