Spanish citizenship by descent (process)

perejil,
1 - when you get your residence visa, you can fly to spain, rent a flat.
2 - then you register that you are living in that flat (empadronarse) in the junta municipal of that area.
3 - then you go to tesoreria de seguridad social handling your area to apply for your social security number.
4 - then you go to the centro de salud of your district to apply for your health card.
5 - then you go to the police station handling the issuance of residence and work permits in your area, and apply for your residence card.
6 - they will tell you when you come back to take your finger print, and when you can get the card, the card includes your nie number.
7 - you can start working as an employee with the just the residence and work visa.

then nie number may be given to you when you receive the letter granting your residence or you may ask for it at the police station when you apply for your residence card.

before you complete a year of residence you apply for the renewal of the card.

when you have completed a year residence (normally when you get the new residence card), you can apply for spanish citizenship.
you can download the form for citizenship application and it also includes the requirements.
one of the requirements is your being employed.

from your country you only need your birth certificate and police record (authenticated or apostilled, and officially translated, ask about this matter at the spanish consulate) the rest include your moms and grannys spanish birth certificates and others you can collect here in a matter of days.

after submitting the forms at the civil register of your area, the police will summon you between six months to a year to interview you on the veracity of the documents.

they will send their findings back to the civil register and if everything is ok, they will send you a letter granting citizenship and informing you to schedule yourself to swear allegiance to the king and the constitution and renouncing your previous citizenship ( you lose it depending how your country grants or revokes citizenships)

you will then register yourself in a new spanish birth certificate and when this is issued to you, you can apply for your dni card and passport.
when you have these you will have to go to the banks, tesoreria, junta municipal, hacienda, etc phone companies, etc to change your nie number to a dni number

Wow Aritz, nice post! Very comprehensive!

Aritz, that was awesome!! Thank you very much for taking the time to write all that out. Requesting sticky!

Edit: I was also wondering, if you have the time, how this process would be different for an EU citizen.

perejil,
an eu citizen does not need a visa to enter spain.
just follow the steps i ennumerated on 28 feb 2010.
you can skip or modify some of them.
when you arrive, you get a flat, then you just start from step number 2.
when you get to number 5 you get your certificate of registration as an eu citizen from the police station handling this matter.
the certificate of registration will also show your nie number (necessary for tax purposes).
your employer will require you this number.

by the way, what passport or passports do you hold right now?

Excellent. I knew step 1 was unnecessary and got confused when i got to step 5 and was reading a municipality?s site and they didn?t say anything about a residence card for EU citizens. Thanks for clearing that up. I have been putting together a document based on what you wrote, with direct links to one municipality?s site which has all this information for when i might need it. Now, i?m just doing the time line of how long everything takes and the costs involved in each step. I got down to step 4 before i was not able to find the specifics.

I read in another thread that you also became a Spanish citizen. How long did it take to schedule yourself to swear allegiance to the king? Were there any costs involved with naturalization?

Are steps 3 and 4 necessary, if i?m not interested in collecting a pension one day or using the public health care system? I work for myself (online) for clients abroad. I just want to make sure that i would do everything correctly and not skip a step that could hold up the naturalization. This document is also for someone else who is also considering the same procedure.

Currently, i have a US passport.

perejil,
US citizens, unless they are puerto ricans, must accumulate 10 years residency before they can apply for spanish citizenship.
ask the spanish consulate if you are entitled to spanish citizenship by having a spanish born grandmother.
if i am not mistaken, the law granting citizenship to exiled spaniards grandchildren due to the civil war ends this year.
they can extend this law for another year i think.
if you are NOT entitled to it you may be given a "busqueda de empleo visa". as a grandchild of a spaniard to come over and look for a job for a 3 month period.
once you get a hired you can apply for your residence card
if in your mothers spanish birth certificate she is classified as spaniard by origin, you only need to accumulate 1 year residency before you can apply.
one of the requirements is having a job. that means you must apply for your social sec number and the health card.
if you are working as self employed you will have to submit the documents showing you are contributing to the sss and paying your taxes.

when you submit the application and requirements, the police will interview you after about 6 to 12 months after submission to see if you are working, if you are living in the right address, if you speak spanish, if you have a clean rpolice record,etc.

after 6 to 12 months the ministry of justice will get the police report and if everything is in order, they will send you a letter granting the citizenship and requiring you to swear allegiance within the next 6 months, to do this you go to local civil registry and get yourself scheduled. once you have done that, you fill in a new spanish birth certificate and once you are issued a copy you can apply for the passport and dni in a matter of minutes. you then go to the bank the sss the irs to change your nie to dni.

now this is how long it takes in madrid, where there is a lot of immigration, small towns may not take as long.

The consulate said that i?m not. Back then, Spanish women lost their nationality when marrying a foreigner. She lost hers this way before the birth of my mother, who was then not born originally Spanish. My mother can become Spanish tomorrow, if she wants, by option, being the child of someone who was originally Spanish. I qualify under the civil code as the grandchild of someone who was originally Spanish, and just have to do one year of residence. We don?t get in under the Historical Memory Law either as my grandmother was born before all that stuff happened.

I would be interested in hearing more about this ?busqueda de empleo visa? as a grandchild of a Spaniard, because i have not heard of this category before and searching online didn?t yield much. Thanks for following this thread. I see you have a similar interest in citizenship laws as i do. We?re looking at Bilbao as a place to live for two or three years.

I have a followup question: My grandparents were Spanish citizens and my father was born outside of Spain in the US (before they had to renounce their Spanish citizenship), and as a result my father should be considered Spanish by origin, correct? He never obtained Spanish citizenship and is no longer alive.

If this is the case, wouldn't I be eligible for Spanish citizenship without residency requirement since by definition my father is an "original Spaniard"?

Thanks.

pzck,
right now you are a us citizen. you have to gather your grandparents spanish passports and dni.
check with the consulate if they officially renounced their citizenship.
are your grandparents still alive?

Aritz,

Thanks for the information. My grandparents are no longer alive. I believe my aunt has their passports, and I need to ask her if they renounced their citizenship. They came to the states in the 1920s but returned to Spain temporarily in the 30s after my father was born (which leads me to believe they must have been Spanish citizens after his birth). They lived and worked in the states until their deaths in the 1990s, and I am quite positive they naturalized at some point. Would they have DNI numbers if they were born around the turn of the 20th century?

pzck,
if they returned to spain before the civil war and left spain during or after the civil war, you may be eligible for citizenship according to the historical memory law. it is a two year process and may be extended a year or so. the dates or their arrival in the usa would be reflected in their passports.
if they went to spain after your father was born, he may have been registed as a spaniard in the spanish consulate. your father needed a passport ( either a spanish or american) to travel with them or his name would have been written on one of the pages of your grandparents passports and you can deduce what this means.
the dni number was used as a passport number until the issuance of the machine readable passports recently.
if they officially renounced, this would be anotated in their birth certificates or with the consulate.
i would assume then that your father was born when they were still spanish citizens in the usa, so he would be by birth both american and spaniard.

Hello perejil,
I am a US citiizen (by birth in US) and my father was a Spaniiard by origin and I was born while he was still a Spanish national. I was able to obtain my Spanish passport at the Consulate here in the US last year. It was a 2 year process for me; howver my brother's application was handled more quickly. Both my brother and I could "recover the Spanish nationality". My sister was born after my father becuase a US citizen and she is applying under the Historic law thing and it is taking a bit longer, but it looks good. My brother's children are also obtaining their Spanish passport by virtue of their grandfather living in exile since civil war.
It is quite a process at the Consulate (and not always pleasant), but it certainly has been worth it at the end for all of us.

I?m in the process of collecting documentation on my family for when i move to Spain. Obtaining my grandmother?s birth certificate is proving to be a very lengthy process. I?m wondering what is the list of documents required when one obtains citizenship as the grandchild of an original Spaniard. Is it birth/marriage/death certificates for everyone in the chain, or are some of those not required? I?m wanting to put this documentation together now so i will have it for later when the time comes.

Thanks!

perejil,
you can get your grandma's birth certificate on line if you know her date of birth and place of birth in spain. the rest of the documents will be coming from the usa.

i was just about to ask this question myself for someone else in france who has spanish parents and grandparents (alive now)

her parents are in the french military though, denounced their spanish citizenship

how ever, her grandparents are living in south of france and go between to visit relatives in Leida

i hope im not annoying by asking this after reading through this thread but are you all saying your relative with a spanish status can also be valid after death as well, i thought you needed a living relative no?

@Gabriel: No the relative doesn?t need to be alive.

@aritz: Do i need anything more than the birth certificates of my grandmother, mother, and myself? Do i need my grandmother?s marriage certificate. My mom wasn?t married to my dad, so there?s no marriage certificate for her. Do i need my grandmother?s death certificate as well?

Thanks!

perejil,
as far as i know,
i think, just try to get the ff
your american birth certificate, apostilled, officially translated into spanish.
your mother's american birth certificated apostilled, officially translated, and spanish birth certificate issued by the consulate.
your grandmother's spanish birth certificate.
if you want to get your grandma's american marriage and death certificates, get them, but have them apostilled and translated and register your grandma's marriage and death at the consulate, if they do registher them, they will issue you a spanish marriage & death certificate equivalent.

when the time comes for you to apply for citizenship you will be told what you do not need to include in the application.

Hi,

Interesting discussion.

My father was born in Spain, emigrated to the US, and became a US citizen. I don't think he ever renounced his Spanish citizenship, he just never renewed his passport.

I was born in the US.

I looked into acquiring Spanish citizenship about ten years ago and I thought then that if I did as an adult, I would renounce my US citizenship. Maybe that was not true.

Anyway, I also explored the process. I have my father's Spanish birth certificate.

I have mine, too.

However, at the time of naturalizing, my father anglicized his name and swapped his maternal surname to his US middle name.

So, for example,
Jose Torres i Campos became

Joe Torres Campos.

So, there is no official document linking me to the name my father was given at birth.

Anyone ever heard of this? Is there a way around it?

He has deceased, to complicate things.

> Hi,

Interesting discussion.

My father was born in Spain, emigrated to the US, and became a US citizen. I don't think he ever renounced his Spanish citizenship, he just never renewed his passport.
I was born in the US.
I looked into acquiring Spanish citizenship about ten years ago and I thought then that if I did as an adult, I would renounce my US citizenship. Maybe that was not true.
Anyway, I also explored the process. I have my father's Spanish birth certificate.
I have mine, too.
However, at the time of naturalizing, my father anglicized his name and swapped his maternal surname to his US middle name.
So, for example,
Jose Torres i Campos became
Joe Torres Campos.
So, there is no official document linking me to the name my father was given at birth.
Anyone ever heard of this? Is there a way around it?
He has deceased, to complicate things.

well,
you do not have to renounce your usa citizenship.
let us just say your father as an american was mr x and as a spaniard he was mr y.
as long as you can prove thru documentation that mr x = mr y there should not be any problems.
the consulate will inform you what documents they need, and if they should be apostilled.
if everything is ok, you will fill in your spanish birth certificate and later you can be issued your spanish passport and when you come over to spain, you dni and sss number.

Thanks. Your Mr. X and Mr. Y is right as a description.

I am not sure how to document that.

I would fill out a Spanish birth certificate? I mean, I was born in the US.

> Thanks. Your Mr. X and Mr. Y is right as a description.
I am not sure how to document that.
I would fill out a Spanish birth certificate? I mean, I was born in the US.


first try if you can find his old spanish passports or dni.
then check if has registered himself as a spaniard residing in the usa in a spanish consulate.
then you can get his old green cards,or drivers licence or state ids, sss, when he was just a resident.
then you can look for his naturalization papers. and or documents he signed changing his name.
then his usa passports, state id's where his new name is shown.
that should prove he is the same person.

you will be issued a spanish birth certificate (indicating you are spanish citizen, born in the usa). spaniards having children outside spain register their new born kids with the consulate as spaniards by filling in the spanish consulate birth certificate form, adults will have to register themselves, who knows, maybe your father registered your birth at the consulate, you can find out.

I went to the Spanish consulate today to request citizenship by the Law of Historical Memory, provision 1 (option of spanish citizenship by origin) as my father was born to Spanish parents. I showed my father's US birth cirtificate (to spanish parents, as stated on the certificate) and originals of my grandmother's birth certificate from the Spanish Civil Registry as well as her US Naturalization papers in 1954. The consulate official stated that the lineage has to be through the father only, not the mother. I don't believe this is correct--this specific statement is not in the Law of Historical Memory that I can see. Does anyone have knowledge of such a provision for Spanish citizenship?


> pzck,
if they returned to spain before the civil war and left spain during or after the civil war, you may be eligible for citizenship according to the historical memory law. it is a two year process and may be extended a year or so. the dates or their arrival in the usa would be reflected in their passports.
if they went to spain after your father was born, he may have been registed as a spaniard in the spanish consulate. your father needed a passport ( either a spanish or american) to travel with them or his name would have been written on one of the pages of your grandparents passports and you can deduce what this means.
the dni number was used as a passport number until the issuance of the machine readable passports recently.
if they officially renounced, this would be anotated in their birth certificates or with the consulate.
i would assume then that your father was born when they were still spanish citizens in the usa, so he would be by birth both american and spaniard.

> I went to the Spanish consulate today to request citizenship by the Law of Historical Memory, provision 1 (option of spanish citizenship by origin) as my father was born to Spanish parents. I showed my father's US birth cirtificate (to spanish parents, as stated on the certificate) and originals of my grandmother's birth certificate from the Spanish Civil Registry as well as her US Naturalization papers in 1954. The consulate official stated that the lineage has to be through the father only, not the mother.


the consul must be refering to another law.
if you can read spanish, read this
?Qui?nes pueden optar a la nacionalidad espa?ola de acuerdo con lo dispuesto en la Ley 52/2007, de 26 de diciembre?
La Disposici?n Adicional S?ptima de la citada ley prescribe lo siguiente:
1. "Las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiese sido originariamente espa?ol podr?n optar a la nacionalidad espa?ola de origen si formalizan su declaraci?n en el plazo de dos a?os desde la entrada en vigor de la presente Disposici?n adicional. Dicho plazo podr? ser prorrogado por acuerdo de Consejo de Ministros hasta el l?mite de un a?o.
2. Este derecho tambi?n se reconocer? a los nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad espa?ola como consecuencia del exilio?.
so there.
if your father's birth was not registered at the embassy, you can apply for his late registration. he would then be "de origen" because both his parents were still spaniards when he was born. therefore, he could pass the citizenship to you according to the law of historical memory. i read this somewhere but read it again to be sure.
get all info from this link
http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Consulares/SolicitudNacionalidad/Paginas/SolicitudNacionalidad.aspx
move fast because this law will expire in december 2011, documentation takes a long time.

i think you fall under the ff provision

B. Personas incluidas en el p?rrafo 2? de la D.A. 7? de la Ley 52/2007 (nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad espa?ola como consecuencia del exilio):

1. Solicitud de opci?n a la nacionalidad espa?ola de origen (Anexo II).

2. Certificaci?n literal de nacimiento del interesado, expedida por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero, legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, seg?n los art?culos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil.

El Registro local extranjero deber?a informar al interesado acerca de cu?l es la oficina del pa?s de su residencia en el extranjero encargada de legalizar los documentos extranjeros o de poner la ?Apostilla de La Haya?, en su caso, para que dichos documentos puedan ser admitidos en las Embajadas y Consulados Generales de Espa?a .

3. Certificaci?n literal de nacimiento de su padre o madre, expedido por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero (legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, seg?n los art?culos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil ) o por un Registro Civil espa?ol (Consular o Municipal). Este certificado pretende ?nicamente relacionar el padre o la madre con el abuelo o la abuela.

4. Certificaci?n literal de nacimiento del abuelo o abuela espa?ol/a del solicitante, expedida por un Registro Civil espa?ol (Consular o Municipal). Igual que en el caso anterior, si hubieran nacido antes de 1870, podr?n aportar una certificaci?n de bautismo.

NOTA.- Las certificaciones literales que soliciten los Registros Civiles Consulares no es necesario que tengan menos de tres meses desde su expedici?n, ya que s?lo ser?n utilizadas para probar la filiaci?n de los interesados con respecto a sus padres y abuelos, no para solicitar un Documento Nacional de Identidad, en cuyo caso s? es imprescindible que la certificaci?n literal se haya expedido con una antelaci?n m?xima de tres meses.

> pzck,
if they returned to spain before the civil war and left spain during or after the civil war, you may be eligible for citizenship according to the historical memory law. it is a two year process and may be extended a year or so. the dates or their arrival in the usa would be reflected in their passports.
if they went to spain after your father was born, he may have been registed as a spaniard in the spanish consulate. your father needed a passport ( either a spanish or american) to travel with them or his name would have been written on one of the pages of your grandparents passports and you can deduce what this means.
the dni number was used as a passport number until the issuance of the machine readable passports recently.
if they officially renounced, this would be anotated in their birth certificates or with the consulate.
i would assume then that your father was born when they were still spanish citizens in the usa, so he would be by birth both american and spaniard.
[/quote]

Dear Aritz,

I don't believe they registered my father's birth with the consulate. My father isn't alive but he stated he never had Spanish citizenship. My grandparents did return to Spain after he was born, but I believe my grandmother needed a visa to return to Spain, which is confusing since she wasn't naturalized in the US until 1954. It sounds like I need a recent official copy of her birth certificate to see when Spanish citizenship was renounced (the birth certificate I have doesn't mention anything). Has anyone heard though that only the father confers citizenship, not the mother (even when they are both Spanish by origin)?

Aritz,

Thanks again for all of your help. We did proceed based on the information from the website, and brought originals of the documentation we had. We don't have my grandfather's naturalization information (do have his Spanish birth certificate) but did show my grandmother's, but they wouldn't accept hers, with the lineage issue aforementioned (males only). The consular official was very friendly, but insisted it had to be from the father. We are using provision 1 of 52/2007, not 2 (exile) since my grandparents weren't exiled to our knowledge.



> [quote author="pzck" date="1287090147"]I went to the Spanish consulate today to request citizenship by the Law of Historical Memory, provision 1 (option of spanish citizenship by origin) as my father was born to Spanish parents. I showed my father's US birth cirtificate (to spanish parents, as stated on the certificate) and originals of my grandmother's birth certificate from the Spanish Civil Registry as well as her US Naturalization papers in 1954. The consulate official stated that the lineage has to be through the father only, not the mother.





the consul must be refering to another law.
if you can read spanish, read this
?Qui?nes pueden optar a la nacionalidad espa?ola de acuerdo con lo dispuesto en la Ley 52/2007, de 26 de diciembre?
La Disposici?n Adicional S?ptima de la citada ley prescribe lo siguiente:
1. "Las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiese sido originariamente espa?ol podr?n optar a la nacionalidad espa?ola de origen si formalizan su declaraci?n en el plazo de dos a?os desde la entrada en vigor de la presente Disposici?n adicional. Dicho plazo podr? ser prorrogado por acuerdo de Consejo de Ministros hasta el l?mite de un a?o.
2. Este derecho tambi?n se reconocer? a los nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad espa?ola como consecuencia del exilio?.
so there.
if your father's birth was not registered at the embassy, you can apply for his late registration. he would then be "de origen" because both his parents were still spaniards when he was born. therefore, he could pass the citizenship to you according to the law of historical memory. i read this somewhere but read it again to be sure.
get all info from this link
http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Consulares/SolicitudNacionalidad/Paginas/SolicitudNacionalidad.aspx
move fast because this law will expire in december 2011, documentation takes a long time.

i think you fall under the ff provision

B. Personas incluidas en el p?rrafo 2? de la D.A. 7? de la Ley 52/2007 (nietos de quienes perdieron o tuvieron que renunciar a la nacionalidad espa?ola como consecuencia del exilio):

1. Solicitud de opci?n a la nacionalidad espa?ola de origen (Anexo II).

2. Certificaci?n literal de nacimiento del interesado, expedida por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero, legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, seg?n los art?culos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil.

El Registro local extranjero deber?a informar al interesado acerca de cu?l es la oficina del pa?s de su residencia en el extranjero encargada de legalizar los documentos extranjeros o de poner la ?Apostilla de La Haya?, en su caso, para que dichos documentos puedan ser admitidos en las Embajadas y Consulados Generales de Espa?a .

3. Certificaci?n literal de nacimiento de su padre o madre, expedido por un Registro Civil local en el extranjero (legalizada o apostillada, en su caso, seg?n los art?culos 88 y 89 del Reglamento del Registro Civil ) o por un Registro Civil espa?ol (Consular o Municipal). Este certificado pretende ?nicamente relacionar el padre o la madre con el abuelo o la abuela.

4. Certificaci?n literal de nacimiento del abuelo o abuela espa?ol/a del solicitante, expedida por un Registro Civil espa?ol (Consular o Municipal). Igual que en el caso anterior, si hubieran nacido antes de 1870, podr?n aportar una certificaci?n de bautismo.

NOTA.- Las certificaciones literales que soliciten los Registros Civiles Consulares no es necesario que tengan menos de tres meses desde su expedici?n, ya que s?lo ser?n utilizadas para probar la filiaci?n de los interesados con respecto a sus padres y abuelos, no para solicitar un Documento Nacional de Identidad, en cuyo caso s? es imprescindible que la certificaci?n literal se haya expedido con una antelaci?n m?xima de tres meses.[/quote]

YOU idea is good, thanks you.

Hey again,

It took us DUKE NUKEM FOREVER to get my grandma's birth certificate from the civil registry in Puerto Rico, but we finally have it. However, it is the EXTRACT of the birth certificate, not the long form, which is typically used/requested in immigration/naturalization/descendant situations. The civil registry in PR said that tons of people had used the birth certificate extracts to recover Spanish nationality, but they will usually say just about whatever to get you to piss off. My question is - has anyone really used the extract and not the long form when becoming a Spanish citizen by descent? I mean, i have a copy of the original, long form, but it's not certified or anything like the extract is.

Thanks!

Could anyone recommend immigration attorneys that are versed on "Ley de la Memoria Historica" who reside in Spain? Thank you.

Can a person apply to spanish visa if his brother/ sister has a spanish citizen?

@perejil

We have helped many dozens of people apply for Spanish Nationality by obtaining birth certificates from Cuba. The Cuban government no longer issues the "long form" and the shorter form... from Cuba anyway, is perfectly acceptable.

I am happy to answer any questions about applying for Spanish Nationality but unless the law has been extended, and I don't think it has been extended, the deadline has passed.

I'm looking for similar information--

I'm eligible for dual American and Dominican citizenship, which I can claim at any time though I am only an American citizen at the moment. I would like to claim Dominican citizenship so that I can go about claiming the two year naturalization citizenship Spain offers. I've been offered a spot at a university for graduate school, which would mean I could complete my graduate studies while living in Spain for the two years, assuming that it's okay to use a student visa to become a naturalized citizen. Does anyone know any further details about this, or how I would go about claiming naturalized citizenship (any rules in regards to visas I may or may not be allowed to have while living there for the two years, etc)? I know that the UK has specific rules about people claiming naturalization-- more specifically rules against using student visas to do so-- so I just want to make sure that I would go about this properly.

I want to add my question to this topic because it's similar.

I am interested in if I can get Spanish Citizenship.

I am a native-born US citizen.

My mother was born in Spain, but moved to the US when she was very young and is a naturalized US citizen. She doesn't have active Spanish citizenship and didn't when I was born. I am not sure if her father ever had Spanish citizenship (she never asked) but her mother had citizenship by birth.

From what I can gather she can claim her citizenship anytime she wants to. But can I claim citizenship through her?

I know that I can through my grandparents but from what I read that requires a year of residence and lots more paperwork.
(Is that right? And if not what does it require?)

I am also under 20. So can I claim Citizenship by option?

I have lots of family that still lives in Spain if that makes any difference. (Vouch for me or the like.)

Thanks for any help in advance!

>
My mother was born in Spain, but moved to the US when she was very young and is a naturalized US citizen. She doesn't have active Spanish citizenship and didn't when I was born. I am not sure if her father ever had Spanish citizenship (she never asked) but her mother had citizenship by birth.

try to get her spanish birth certificate and go to the spanish consulate in your area and verify if she ever renounced her citizenship


> From what I can gather she can claim her citizenship anytime she wants to. But can I claim citizenship through her?

if she is still a spanish citizen, her being a native born spaniard makes her ctizenship "de origen" which means she can pass on her citizenship to you automatically. you will be just be registered with a new spanish birth certificate. once done you can get your dni and passport and ss, etc.
consult consulate and get ready and used to unamerican bureaucracy.

Sorry, but I just wanted to clarity your response to me. Thank you for responding.


My mother, as an adult, never formally renounced her citizenship in Spain. When she was 1 1/2 her father moved to the US (her mother died a Spanish citizen) and she was naturalized at age 4.

I wasn't sure if it was taken from her by, say age 20, since she never moved back to Spain. Wouldn't simply living in the US be reason to lose active citizenship?
I think I see what you are saying. I know she can't lose her Right to Spanish Citizenship as long as she lives, but because she never renounced it, has she retained citizenship all that time?

All I can say is that I know for certain that she doesn't think she ever formally renounced it at a Spanish Consulate or anything like that, and maybe then she still does have it.
I thought at least it might be dormant, or something.


She still has her birth certificate, (it isn't very useful over here, since no one can read it), but she has the original.

So, I know I can get citizenship by option (I'm not 20 yet), but could I (or my siblings) get de origen?

Thank you so much!

I have a related question:

My father (now deceased) was born in Madrid in 1940 to spanish parents. He immigrated to the U.S. at age 12 and became a naturalized U.S. citizen as a teenager. I have his spanish birth certificate, along with my grandmothers. I may have my grandfathers as well.

I am 50 years old and am interested in gaining spanish citizenship I have been there dozens of times and would like to preserve my spanish heritage and possibly retire there.

Is there any possibility at this stage?

Thanks,

I'm new to this site, so if I bungle the protocols please forgive me. My husband and I are considering moving to Spain from northern Europe. I'm American, he's Dutch. My last name is Spanish. I understand that the Law of Historical Memory just expired, but I'm wondering if it would help at all (to get Spanish citizenship) if I can show that I am descended from a Spanish great grandfather who was a Spanish military officer in the Pacific before and during the Spanish American War. This has to do with "historical memory" that goes back to the 19th century, when my great grandfather and grandfather were both born in the Pacific, in Manila and Guam, respectively - at the end of the Spanish Empire and the beginning of the American Empire. I doubt that I can obtain any official, apostilled documents from that time of war and turmoil (more on that in a minute). So I wonder if this is too far a stretch for me to claim Spanish citizenship, even though my great grandfather was the military secretary to the Spanish governor of the Mariana Islands, and was the first Spanish officer to be captured as a prisoner of war in the Spanish American War. My great grandfather's name is all over civil documents in Guam preceding the American invasion of Guam. He was even the postmaster in Guam after the Americans took over, as well as an unofficial advisor to the American governor. There are records of that.

However, establishing the connection between me and my great grandfather through my grandfather is the problem. I just learned this week that getting a birth certificate for my grandfather, who was born in Guam in 1890?, is impossible. In 1944 (the year of my birth), the Americans bombed Guam so thoroughly to get the Japanese to leave that all church records were destroyed, and it was the churches that kept birth and death records. All my great grandfather's many children and grandchildren apparently left Guam, probably long before I was born. My grandfather emigrated to California, where my father was born in 1918. But I have no official documents related to my grandfather's existence, and I don't know where in Southern California he lived or when and where he died. I only met him when I was a child, and my father is now deceased.

It's a strange story with a twist at the end: in the 15th and 16th centuries Spain becomes an empire, discovering and settling the Americas, as well as some of the Pacific islands. Several centuries later, Spain is challenged and defeated by "America" (the United States), and a Spanish family that was sent from Spain to the Pacific ends up in California. One of the daughters of that family, who grew up in California, recognizes late in life that the American empire is coming to an end, and wants to end her time on Earth in the country of her paternal lineage. She wants to connect with her Spanish genes after having been dominated by her anglo-saxon lineage most of her life. She wants to live in Andalusia, where her father's lineage comes from. But she can't prove her connection with her grandfather and father lineage because the country where she was born destroyed the records.

Does anybody have any ideas about how to bring a happy ending to this story? I'd be very grateful. Thank you for listening to this tale.

> I have a related question:

My father (now deceased) was born in Madrid in 1940 to spanish parents. He immigrated to the U.S. at age 12 and became a naturalized U.S. citizen as a teenager. I have his spanish birth certificate, along with my grandmothers. I may have my grandfathers as well.

I am 50 years old and am interested in gaining spanish citizenship I have been there dozens of times and would like to preserve my spanish heritage and possibly retire there.

Is there any possibility at this stage?

Thanks,

children of spain-born spanish citizens may get spanish citizenship automatically. consult the spanish consulate in your area. i know one case first hand.

> I understand that the Law of Historical Memory just expired, but I'm wondering if it would help at all (to get Spanish citizenship) if I can show that I am descended from a Spanish great grandfather who was a Spanish military officer in the Pacific before and during the Spanish American War.

it is not contemplated in the current citizenship acquisition laws of spain. right now you are a usa citizen. you will have to reside for 10 continuous years in spain to get citizenship. you will not have problems getting residency as your spouse is a dutch citizen.

Another citizenship by descent question from a US citizen looking to obtain Spainish citizenship.

My grandmother was born in Spain and left just after birth in 1911. We have the original birth certificate from Spain. I was told there was a way to apply for citizenship via "La Ley de Memoria Historica" being that her family left in distress. The dates listed for this do not line up with the 1911 time frame and I have not been able to find much, if any, info in english about this.

Wondering if anyone has any info on the "La Ley de Memoria Historica" and if this might work for me? If not, is there any hope of a different path for me to get citizenship?

Thank you for the help.

>
My grandmother was born in Spain and left just after birth in 1911. We have the original birth certificate from Spain. I was told there was a way to apply for citizenship via "La Ley de Memoria Historica" being that her family left in distress. The dates listed for this do not line up with the 1911 time frame and I have not been able to find much, if any, info in english about this.

Wondering if anyone has any info on the "La Ley de Memoria Historica" and if this might work for me?
Thank you for the help.

the ley de memoria hist?rica is no longer in force. it had a deadline. it would not have work for you because it only covered, descendants of spaniards who left spain at the start of the civil war up to the 1950's.

> If not, is there any hope of a different path for me to get citizenship?

your only way is to get legal residency and as a grandchild of a spanish born citizen, you can start applying for citizenship at the beginning of your second year as legal resident. processing takes about a year and a half. you will have to renounce your present citizenship (except citizenshif of former spanish colonies) before a spanish judge. this may be held valid or not by the laws of your country.

Thanks aritz,

Thought there may be something easier for me. Thanks again.

Yes, I would like to thank Aritz also for responding clearly to my query. Thank you.

Hi I'm new to this forum, but noticed that the information in this thread seems very precise and was wondering if someone could help with a question i have regarding applying for spanish citizenship.
My father just recently gained Spanish Citizenship through his grandfather. My father and I were born in Argentina, and I currently have dual citizenship (Argentina/United States). I'm considering grad school in Spain at the moment, and was wondering what if anything I can do to get Spanish citizenship? Do I have to reside one, two, 10 years, no time at all, etc or is it not possible ?
Thank you for the help.

Hi everyone.
I am new member and have a question.
I am 62. and born in the US. My mother was born in the US, father was born in West Virginia in the early 1920's. His father and mother were Spanish citizens and came to the US in 1920.
I just found out about my grandparents. I had no contact with them. I believe they became US citizens in the 1970's or 1980's.
Is it possible once I have the documentation, birth certificates, etc. to become a Spanish citizen through ancestry?
I am not sure how to get my grandparents birth certificates.
My father, mother and grandparents are deceased.
Thank you for any information.
Rosabella

New to the forum and I hope someone can help me.

My grandmother was born in Morocco, she held spanish passport but lived in Italy and then moved to Canada where she currently lives. My mother was born Italy and has Italian and Spanish passports, both I think by now are expired as she has lived in the for 30+ years. Would I be eligible to get citizenship based on the fact that they held passports even though neither one was actually born in Spain?

My wife on the other hand was born in Madrid but her parents weren't citizens yet and only had resident visa's. We are both US citizens and plan to move to Spain soon.

TIA for your help.

> New to the forum and I hope someone can help me.

My grandmother was born in Morocco, she held spanish passport but lived in Italy and then moved to Canada where she currently lives. My mother was born Italy and has Italian and Spanish passports, both I think by now are expired as she has lived in the for 30+ years. Would I be eligible to get citizenship based on the fact that they held passports even though neither one was actually born in Spain?

My wife on the other hand was born in Madrid but her parents weren't citizens yet and only had resident visa's. We are both US citizens and plan to move to Spain soon.

TIA for your help.

first, check if your grandmother and mother are still spanish citizens. get copies of their spanish birth certificates. if they are espa?oles de origen then they can automatically pass on their citizenship to you. then go to the spanish consulate nearest your residence to get the requirements and information on this matter
second, get a copy of your wife's birth certificate in madrid to see exactly if she got dual citizenship after birth.

First of all,there have so many people come from different country,for example,me .i come from UK.Not the every body can use English to leave the message ,they even can not read any words,but they can understand something from the pictures ,the original links or somewhere.if they want to know what's you want to tell them know ,they need spend time to check the dictionary .so ,i think it's too hard to leave a English comment here.. .. ;) ;) ;)

EDIT: whoops I didn't see the posts at the bottom of the last page dealing with a similar situation. Well, I'll leave my post here in case anything about my situation might possibly warrant a different procedure.

This seems to be the best place to ask, since I can't find any clear answers elsewhere on the net.

My grandfather was originally born in Spain, but moved to Cuba when he was very young - in the early 1940s, I think. He had to flee to the US with his wife and children decades later and became a US citizen some time after. He never renounced his Spanish citizenship. Is it at all possible for him to recover or reclaim his Spanish citizenship after so many decades of not really using it? If so, what kind of procedures would he have to go through, what kind of documents would he have to put together? I highly doubt he has access to his original Spanish birth certificate due to the nature in which he had to leave Cuba. Is there any way to get a copy?

Most advice I can find online presupposes that one's grandparent has unambiguous Spanish citizenship; resources about our predicament are nonexistent :(

Any help, or just pointing in a helpful direction, would be hugely appreciated.

Belpit,

You can use this site to get your grandfather's birth certificate. You will not be able to get a digital certificate since these are only available for births after 1950.

https://sede.mjusticia.gob.es/cs/Satellite/Sede/en/tramites/certificado-nacimiento

Obviously in filling out the form, the more information you provide the faster you'll get the certificate. So if you have the name of his parents, the place and date of his birth (so that you can solicit the ministry to go directly to the civil registry of that town/city), and (but unlikely in your case) the tome and page number where the certificate is located within the civil registry you will get it very fast (like, within a month or two of requesting it). I had the information exactly for my great grandmother because we had a copy of her birth certificate. For my great grandfather, on the other hand, we only had the place and date of birth, and his parents' names = something like 4 months if i recall. So it is entirely possible and it doesn't cost anything.

I would like to thank Aritz also for responding clearly to my query.

HELLO
I just want to make sure about some details.

My grandfather is a Spanish by origin (he was born in Spain in 1935 and his mother is a Spanish).
My father was born in Palestine . (in this year (2014) he got Spanish nationality by origin BECAUSE he is a son of a Spanish father born in Spain)
and I was born in Palestine , my age is now 29 .
- Am I eligible to get Spanish nationality?
- what is the deference between nationality by origin and nationality by residency
- what kind of nationality that I can get?
I didn't practice my right to get Spain nationality in the past , because my grandfather exile from spain when he was 2 years old under the civil war that extended from (1936-1939) . and my father obtained his Spanish nationality in this year (2014) .

Hello, I have another query about Spanish Citizenship.

My main question is about requesting the documents necessary when you do not have a relationship with the Spanish national. Both of my parents were born in Venezuela to Spanish parents. Unfortunately they were never registered as Spanish nationals ( or so I believed). My parents divorced when i was 13 and my father abandoned the country and I have not seen him since.

While cleaning out documents I found a form that contained NIF information and another form that suggests that my brother was placed in the Libro de Familia; in that form my Father writes that he is a Spanish citizen. Using this information, my birth certificate and various records is it possible to gather the documents needed to start the process? The big issue is that since I don't have any communication with my Father I cannot easily access these documents. I am very interested in seeing if I can find any documentation that will help me claim my citizenship like birth certificate and other supporting documents. Is this possible?

I have various family members who live in Spain who can certainly act on my behalf if need be.

My mother is gathering the necessary documentation to become a Nationalized citizen ( she has since renounced Venezuelan citizenship and is a US citizen) so regardless I can be claimed by her once her process is complete, i was just looking to expedite the process.

I am 22 years old.

Thank you in advance!!

rgb23

Your mother was a daughter of a spaniard, correct? If I read this correctly she was never registered at birth. I am supposing that your mother is undergoing the process because she opened a dossier with the Spanish consulate while the historical memory law was active, correct? I ask this because from my mother's experience with the Spanish consulate in Miami this law is now closed unless you opened up a dossier before the law ended in December of 2011 - they no longer accept any new requests under this law. Since you are older than 18 (or as Spanish law says, up to two years after emancipation, which would place upper bound on 20 years of age if 18 is the age of emancipation), the only way that your mother would be able to make you Spanish without you setting foot in Spain is if you also opened up a dossier while the law of historical memory was active; and even then you would likely have done it under your grandparents since your mother at the time - and currently - was not Spanish. Otherwise, you are too old; the only way that Spanish law allows the child of a Spaniard to recuperate (the traditional "by option") citizenship at ANY point in the life of the child without having to do residency in Spain is if the parent were a Spaniard by origin AND said parent was physically born in Spain - so this path to citizenship is closed for any child whose parent became/was/is a Spaniard of origin and born abroad (irrespective of the process used to become a Spaniard of origen - parent inscription of the birth in the consulate of the country of birth, or using the Memory law as many of us have). Moreover, this "by option" route does not confer the "by origen" qualifier to the citizenship. Effectively what the Memory Law did for those born abroad of Spanish parents who could have ALWAYS opted to be Spanish is give their citizenship the monicker "of origen", which is the heritable citizenship.

Assuming the both of you have opened up a dossier (which are indefinite, there is no time frame for turning in the documents...for now) and she has been able to get her documents in order, then she will be able to obtain the Spanish citizenship of origen by option. This is important for you because, if she merely opts for it as the law currently stands she won't likely get the "by origen," which is necessary for you to recuperate yours, should you have opened a dossier - recall she wasn't born in Spain so you can't also opt the normal way. Once she obtains it, you might have a slight hurdle to obtain yours. Yours will be more complicated since presumably you may need another document aside from your mother's newly minted Spanish birth certificate.

This is what we did with my grandmother, whose parents were Spanish and born in Spain - she could have even at 85 years old opted to be Spanish even without the Memory Law; but now that she is "of origen" thanks to the Memory Law I can benefit from her citizenship by residing in Spain on a Residency permit for one year (student visas don't count - Spain considers these extended visas and not a residency permit per se) and then applying for my citizenship, which is precisely what I have done. Since my mother opened up a dossier prior to the closure of the Memory Law, my grandmother can now sign "a certificate of the recuperation of Spanish citizenship of origen" for my mother when she presents three documents: 1) my grandmother's Spanish birth certificate; 2) her US birth certificate with the Apostille legalization; and 3) her Spanish grandfather's proof of Cuban citizenship or lack thereof, and in the case he never became Cuban (which in our case he never did), a certificate from the foreigner registry office of the date of his inscription. The reason for document (3) is that my mother opened her dossier through her grandparents since at the time my grandmother was not yet a Spaniard (they both opened their dossiers up at the same meeting in the consulate). Thus, it seems, my mother applied under the grandparent clause and we presume that they want to know when my grandfather went to/registered in Cuba (did he go as an exile of the Civil war, or not). The problem is that the certificate of foreigner registration document for us no longer exists (we have the cuban document saying he never became a citizenship) since those papers in Cuba were destroyed during floods and hurricanes at the local municipal registries. We have recently solicited his death certificate and are now trying to see if, since the certificate states he died as a Spaniard, it will work for my mother as a substitute.

So as you see the process is daunting. The bureaucrats at the consulate have EVERY reason to instigate red tape to get you to not want to go through this process since they are handling tens of thousands of dossiers.

You asked about your father. IF you need your father's birth certificate and IF your father had a NIF and was a Spanish citizen, then he would presumably have a Spanish birth certificate. So you will need to get this. Since he was born in Venezuela his Spanish birth certificate will be located in the Registro Civil Central de Madrid (this is where all birth certificates of foreign-born Spaniards are located). See my post above from a couple years ago for the link to solicite the birth certificate. Here the problem is it will take a while to find depending on what information you have. You state to have un libro familiar. HOPEFULLY you have the two important things: el tomo y la pagina of the certificate used to catalogue the document at the consulate where the birth was recorded. Using this they will find the certificate in their files using the correspondence lists they have to their Tomos and Paginas in the RCC (the cataloging is not the same and the fact that they have to match up the consulate records to their copy records means it takes time).

I hope this helps and that you are able to get this taken care of.

I would also very much like to know the answers to these questions

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