http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-2148335/Fleeing-Costa-catastrophe-Thousands-hand-villa-keys-Spains-economy-teeters.html

Here’s the Daily Mail article.

And here’s what one reader had to comment (sanely) on the article.

The people who are leaving Spain are usually the ones who did not come out with enough money to last them in the first place. They took out mortgages on villas without paying for solicitors to check the legality, deeds, local town hall and county plans and development laws. They hung around the bars all day drinking and fighting, thinking they could pick up enough euros to survive as odd job men (sorry,?builders?) by ripping off other Brits. They didn?t bother to learn the language, make Spanish friends, eat anything but chips, or stir out of their urbanisations. In fact, they were an almighty embarrassment to the thousands of us who have chosen to integrate and make this our home. Spain is well rid of them. To some of the other commentators obviously pathetically ignorant about this lovely country; from Alicante north and westwards is verdant with olive, orange and soft fruit groves, green hills, rivers, productive farms and woodland. By the way, it is also very cold in winter.
And equally sanely, this reader:

“Why didn’t these people have contingency plans in place?”

I have always, always, said and maintained that there are many who simply should not move to another country, or are not suited to a life abroad.  It is not something to be undertaken lightly as far too many did.

Patricia

Well said Patricia,

I have been saying the same thing for years.

How many of those trying to get back to the UK have complained about those coming to the UK from other countires to live, take low paid jobs and not learning to speak English. My experience is that many of those who moved to Spain in recent years are doing the same as those coming to the UK from other Countires. There is not much difference, in the UK you see shops selling Polish, Asian, Italian, Greek food, go to Spain and the supermarkets have large sections selling “english” food.

I have a friend who moved to Spain in 2005 and he must have his daily english newspaper, his blue tin of beans and his english beer, then he wonders why it costs him so much money to live. Maybe the increase in the pound will help those who are finding it hard, it will not help those who find it hard to get out of holiday mode.

Dave

Hi,

Having read the article, well, the usual stuff written to fill the pages of newspapers.

Points they raise; Bankia now 45% owned by Spanish Government - how many UK Banks had to be bailed out by UK Government.

It speaks about a couple who bought in 1999 for ?36000 and it says that their property was on the market for three years and sold in February 2012 so what was the increase in price since 1999, I would suggest that in 2007 the 3 bed apartment would have cost about 160000 so a 27% drop from that would still value the property at 117000, not exactly a loss. Use todays reate, then if they sold at 117000 then they would bring back to the UK about ?96000

It also talks about there being a ?138 billion property debt, huge chuncks from expats handing back their keys, what about the defaulting Spanish Builders who part built apartment blocks and urbanisations to take advantage of the expats desire to have a place in the sun, many of these builders have now gone bust and left expats with no property and a lost deposit.

It also talks about UK based agents sprining up selling repossessions, yes there are a few UK agents selling Repos, we are one of them, but they are not something that buyers should be careful about providing they take the same precautiins they would buying a place in Spain or any other Country as they would buying a place in the UK. I agree many have used a package offered by the selling agent, mortgage, legals, surveyors etc,  but it is always better to get someone independant who will look after you and not have the people who provide them with many buyers each year and get a good commission from or are even their own legal team. We have some repossessions from as little as ?25000. Many of the repossessions are properties which have been left by the builders who have gone bust and left the development unfinished.

My thoughts are; Good news does not sell papers. In the main, it is only a few who want to come back to the UK and is it always because of the problems with the cost of living in Spain or is it that they fulfilled that side of their lifes ambition, been there, done that. How many of those who want to sell up are those who’s property is just a holiday home and after 6 or 7 years of going to the same place want a change or the costs of getting there or even their ability to get there has changed. Selling a property has many reasons and not everything is down to the value of the Euro.

?Why didn?t these people have contingency plans in place??

As much as it pains me to debate a Daily Mail piece or its comments, I will do so.

Many expats who arrived in Spain in the early to mid 2,000s did have contingency plans. But no one can predict every event even likely to take place over the years following the making of their plans.

None of them could predict, with accuracy, what would happen to the Euro.  And, as I write this, we are still very unsure of the future of the Euro.

In line with the ebb and flow of Governments in democracies, some could have predicted a change of Government during this time, but they could not accurately predict what changes each Government would make or exactly how those changes would affect peoples standards of living, or even how they stand as EU citizens.

However many plans you make they can still be scuppered by events out of your control.

As to those who did not integrate within their local Spanish communities, that is their loss. 
But integration does not guarantee a stable future, so I think its a mute point.

damatt - 24 May 2012 02:25 PM

My thoughts are; Good news does not sell papers. In the main, it is only a few who want to come back to the UK and is it always because of the problems with the cost of living in Spain or is it that they fulfilled that side of their lifes ambition, been there, done that. How many of those who want to sell up are those who’s property is just a holiday home and after 6 or 7 years of going to the same place want a change or the costs of getting there or even their ability to get there has changed. Selling a property has many reasons and not everything is down to the value of the Euro.

Exactly.
There are many reasons why some people want to move from Spain, back to the UK.
But the piece in question does not acknowledge this.

I agree Damatt.  And just to mention that I hold no brief for the Daily Mail, and you are quite right.  This type of article does sell newspapers LOL.
However, some of those who commented do make good points IMO.

Quite a few people, though, are returning to the U.K. or wherever home is.  I have a couple of friends who lived, like myself, almost all their life in Spain, and have gone back to the U.K.  But I don’t believe there is a mass exodus back to U.K.  Maybe many can’t go back because there is nothing to go back to.

The problem is that many came to Spain without thinking through what they were doing.  Many did not have enough money to make a move to another country.  As simple as that.  Flying by the seat of their pants.  Not even keeping a small “bolt-hole” back in the U.K. just in case.  and not having a small contingency fund (an amount to cover emergencies).  And this situation is all the more terrifying in the case of retirees. 
I have met countless people who came to Spain to buy a place and live here.  Of all those I would say that less than half were suited to the endeavour.  In a large number of cases you had one spouse who wanted to move to Spain and the other didn’t.  A very unhappy situation.  I’ve had the “not wanting” spouse confide in me, miserable about the whole thing. 

Many were mesmerized,plain entranced, by what they were doing (with the sun, the atmoshere, the strangeness thrown in for good measure), and you got the impression they were doing the transaction on remote control.

Far too many did not “make haste slowly”.

Patricia

It is the same with many in the media, they are out to get a story that some company will pay them for. Failure will always sell. It is the same with the “holiday homes from hell” type programme, they only want to know those who have had a some kind of problem, they are not interested in those who have made a go of it.

I got involved with Spain in 2005/2006 and saw many brits flying in on Free 4 day inpsection trips, collected at the airport, nice hotel, wine, food and pressure selling, sorry, advising of the benefits of owning property in Spain and buying whilst the property is still available as they will not be around long, or this is the last one at this price. I do recall seeing the same mini bus arrive at our complex when one of the big boys were promoting the development and I got talking to a couple who had a nice tan and asked if they came to Spain regular because of the tan, no was the answer, they just liked to outdoor life. Over the next 2 weeks, I saw the same couple on 3 further occassions and then they would not speak with me, Mmmm, wonder why. Was it that they were just plants to add additional pressure. They are happy to part with their ?3000, sign the papers without reading them or taking legal advice, they then fly home and reflect on what they had just done, in many cases under the influance of drink and sunshine.

We always tell buyer to find a property and go home and think about it for a few days, maybe even go back and look again as it will be cheaper to go back 2 or 3 times than not be able to pay for it when the interest rate goes up. Many of the agents did not tell you about the added 12% to cover your legal bits, you think it is the same as in the UK when all is included. You budget for 100000 and then find on completion it is 112000 and you do not have the extra 12000. Many also use the Banks to transfer money as it is easy that way, but they do not look at what it costs.just 0.06 can cost you almost 6000 extra between a specialist FX company and the Bank, plus the Bank will make a lrage charge every time you make a monthly payment against some FX compaies who will do it for free.

There you have it Damatt.  Inspection trips en masse, no homework done, no thought into what is a hefty undertaking : buying a property.  Heavens, people would put more thought into buying a good Winter coat! 

As you can imagine, and given that I have lived in Spain for decades, people back home would turn to me for advice on all things Spain.  Indeed, my husband used to call our place “the Consulate”.  LOL.
Sensible people ask questions, lots of questions, and more importantly: they LISTEN. 

It is as you say far far better to reurn to Spain on three or four trips to see and re-view the property.  Better than getting trapped and not being able to pay.  In any case, if a person can’t afford three or four plane tickets to Spain and back, plus their accommodation for a few days, then they should not be buying a property in the first instance. 
I would tell people to come to Spain of their own accord, take out a car, and if they didn’t want to drive to invest some money and be driven around a few places, and to ask questions not just at the sales offiecs on developments, but also of residents living there. 
Surprisingly (or maybe not) it was those who had enough money to buy, and enough NOT to have to live a shoe-string life in Spain who were the most sensible and careful in looking at a transaction.
Maybe the others (the many) who got the 120% mortgage took the view that it was the bank’s money, not theirs, so, I mean, what the heck: let’s go for it!  I wish someone would erase that word “dream” from anything to do with property.  A dream is nothing more than an intangible, and has nothing to do with the hard-headed business world.  I think that a huge number of people had not the faintest idea what they were doing.

Yes, Damatt, many were not told (and did not ask) about the conveyancing costs.  Maybe they thought all that would be a little gift for being good boys and girls and buying in Spain. 
All kinds of things got mixed up.  People could not understand why they had to pay rates/council tax (IBI) AND condominium service charges. 
  Others could not understand why they had to become members of their residents’ association for the development or building where they were purchasing. Did they think a band of elves would come in the night and leave gardens, pools and public areas ship-shape!

One could write not one but several books…...

Patricia

I got involved with Spain in 2005/2006 and saw many brits flying in on Free 4 day inpsection trips, collected at the airport, nice hotel, wine, food and pressure selling, sorry, advising of the benefits of owning property in Spain and buying whilst the property is still available as they will not be around long, or this is the last one at this price. I do recall seeing the same mini bus arrive at our complex when one of the big boys were promoting the development and I got talking to a couple who had a nice tan and asked if they came to Spain regular because of the tan, no was the answer, they just liked to outdoor life. Over the next 2 weeks, I saw the same couple on 3 further occassions and then they would not speak with me, Mmmm, wonder why. Was it that they were just plants to add additional pressure. They are happy to part with their ?3000, sign the papers without reading them or taking legal advice, they then fly home and reflect on what they had just done, in many cases under the influance of drink and sunshine.

We always tell buyer to find a property and go home and think about it for a few days, maybe even go back and look again as it will be cheaper to go back 2 or 3 times than not be able to pay for it when the interest rate goes up. Many of the agents did not tell you about the added 12% to cover your legal bits, you think it is the same as in the UK when all is included. You budget for 100000 and then find on completion it is 112000 and you do not have the extra 12000. Many also use the Banks to transfer money as it is easy that way, but they do not look at what it costs.just 0.06 can cost you almost 6000 extra between a specialist FX company and the Bank, plus the Bank will make a lrage charge every time you make a monthly payment against some FX compaies who will do it for free.

We currently live in OZ & plan to move to Spain later this year (either part or full time).

From our perspective, Spain still presents a wonderful opportunity SUBJECT TO very careful preparation & contingency planning.

Campana & Damatt have effectively highlighted cases where people have come short for various reasons.

Cheers,

Andrea

Yes, Andrea007, there are good opportunities in Spain, and I think you will enjoy the experience, very much.  I know you are putting a lot of preparation and homework into the venture.
“Eyes wide open” is the motto.

All the best
Patricia