Hi everyone. I’m hoping some of you could give me some advice. My partner and I are considering moving over to spain, Alicante/Valencia areas, but we’re only starting to research it to see if it is viable. The main queries we have before going too much into it are
Are there options for getting a mortgage as soon as you are there, or would you need to rent for a year or two first to get settled in a job etc ?( I will have a certain amount of capitol from selling my house here)
We would probably both go out to work, but as we have 2 young kids, what are the childcare options, or would it be viable for one of us to work round the school hours for example?
What realistically are the job prospects in these areas, and any ideas of average salaries. I realise this is probably a bit vague, but a few ideas of either shop or bar work in Alicante / valencia areas would be helpful
Are there any difficulties in getting places in schools, the girls are 5 and 6 at the minute. They are learning spanish in school and to be honest would know more spanish than me at the minute!
I’d especially like to hear from people who have made the move over the last year or two, to see how theyre coping and whether they’re settled and happy, or wishing they’d stayed where they were
You only need to spend a short time on any expat site to have these questions answered.
I’m afraid your around 4-5 yrs too late to move to Spain to work and be able to stay, its not impossible, if a million peeps all tried to climb Everest a few would succeed.
To give you some idea a friend of ours is Spanish, middle aged and moved to Spain from Argentina 10 yrs ago, he is/was an Insurance Broker, when he arrived his only employment was bar work and for 7 yrs that was his only job.He speaks English and lives in the Costa Del Sol, so no shortage of bars.In 2007 he was laid off and the last 3 yrs has seen him unemployed, his benefits ran out 2 yrs ago and they have had to survive on savings, food handouts from the govt and the occasional black market job.Two months ago he got some labouring-work on a construction site fitting new smoke alarms as it is a new requirement in Spain and grant aided, but this stopped indefinitely last week.
There is a huge unemployment problem in Spain, of +4 million peeps and Spain is the number one choice for EU peeps seeking a new life in the sun.
So why would any employer pick you as a newbie to Spain, unable to communicate, with a family to support and no experience of living in Spain want to take a punt on you.
I mention the family because there is a huge amount of expats who went to Spain to work and found that the wife unable to speak Spanish found living in Spain very unfriendly and lonely and with in a few months returned to the comfort of family a friends.So any employer will assume you may leave very quickly and therefore somebody with the same skills and more time in Spain will probably get the job.
Unless you have a job before moving, then forget it, also Spain to work is far harder than the UK, in so much as it gets very hot and your surrounded by peeps on holiday, it has a holiday feelin and it can take a lot of motivation to get up in 40 degree heat and do 8-10 hrs of work surrounded by beaches, bars and holiday makers.Many Expats find that the hardest, for nationals its no problem unless your in southern Spain, then that is why everything takes so long to get done.You’ll find that most workin expats rarely have a tan.
Also labour laws and works regs are bad, don’t expect job security, you can be fired for no reason without warning, just to make way for Juan Antonio’s brother who may well be a friend of the boss.Enchufe is king in Spain, you’ll need to learn it amongst Spaniards and also many expats network amongst themselves.There are many communities within communities and you’ll need to be friendly and helpful, or you’ll be out.
If you do decide to move to Spain without a job you’ll need at least 50,000 Euros, don’t sell your house as you’ll need it when you return to the UK, if you do sell it, you’ll have committed the most common mistake expats make.Only rent until you are confident you can live and work happily, after all you have no experience of the culture and lifestyle, so how do you judge that town or region or even country suits you and your family.Loans in Spain pre crisis were very easy, you only needed basic info and a job to secure a loan, no credit checks or financial history, Spain believed you to choose your ability to pay and if you did not pay, then your made homeless with no financial help from the govt beyond a long waiting list for the homeless shelter or living back with your parents.Now its different, the banks are as tight as the UK and a foreigner with no/poor income, new to the country and no language skills would be shown the door, so you’d have to rely on UK banks, which are as strict.
Me I went to Spain with a job, my OH is Spanish, she moved to UK for a better life and I moved her back and we lived there for 4 yrs, it was a total eye opener, the job was very very different to a UK company, the people we’re arrogant, ignorant and frankly stupid.I’m not the most intelligent, but frankly compared to Andalucians I’m a genius.Everyday life was an uphill fight, I speak Spanish and so does my children, fluently before we left, I pre move visited my OH parents around 3-4 times a yr for the last 15 yrs, so thought I knew Spain and the Spanish culture, got that wrong.Don’t be fooled by peeps writing how friendly Spain is and how there family life is far better, if Spain was so great why do most Expats live in English ghettos well away from Spaniards ?
Spain recently came 3rd in the top ten most unfriendly countries on the EU.It took my OH several months before the other mothers on the school run spoke more than a hello, the Spanish a famously pack animals, at least in Spain they are, most groups of friends won’t accept an outsider from Spain easily, from outside of Spain very few will bother with you for a long time if in fact at all.They’ll say hello and smile, but when your not lookin will look you up and down and gossip, Spanish love to gossip, daytime TV is a major gossip fest, you think famous are liked in Hello over in the UK, quad ripple that in Spain.The inside of a Spaniards house could be a s88t hole, but in the street image is king and wearing the right cloths and jewellery is important, unless you want to be gossiped about, you’ll hear Guiri mentioned, its used to mock a person from outside Spain, it means a person of pale skin, who would look like a Brit/German/Swede with shocks, sandal’s and very red skin burn and no taste in clothing.
Anyway research Spain, spend time there on trips and wait until the economy is better.
Enough said,totally agree.We returned after 7 years mainly to do with education but the cost of living had a lot to do with it.The 1euro coffee and beer is now long gone.If you have jobs here dont give them up to move to Spain.
I transfered jobs, same company, same sh88 different country.
I earned take home in the UK around ?2,400 a month, in Spain I was offered (in writting) 35,000 Euros a yr, so more money, nice one I thought.
Only my surprise came on the first wage, my bank got 1,100 Euros.Turned out most peeps I worked with took home max 1,500 a month after tax etc.
I complained and showed the offer, thet laughed, ignored it.Legal action in Spain can take yrs and cost lots, far more difficult in Spain than the UK.
The average wage in that region was 800.00 a month, so they could not see the issue with my wages, as there very good, to them.
Not me, the appeal soon went.
Add the fact beaches are lovely when on holiday, but when you earn so little and prices to take the kids to a water park or zoo are aimed at tourist it can become very boring, its also expensive goin out into the bars every night, but there is not much else to do in that heat.Mountains are too hot in summer and in our region too cold in winter and without a 4x4 impossible.
But we are fortunate and have income from established business not dependent on Spanish economy. Getting paid in sterling isnt great but we know we are lucky compared to many.
I certainly do not agree with all the negative things Santi says about Spanish people - but we’ve been here 15 months not years, and if I am honest I would say that most of our friends here are non-Spanish, and the Spanish people who are friends tend to be in multilingual relationships and/or choosing an English education for their children - perhaps you’d say are not typical. However even if I felt I knew many Spanish people well however I would never generalise or stereotype an entire nationality as arrogant/thick/gossipy… this is simply racism; such descriptions are merely character traits for individuals (and individuals have their own history and baggage as well). Oh and I wonder if Santi would regard me as an ‘expat’ or ‘the wife’ in this scenario?
Whatever. The facts about the economy, exchange rate and unemployment are unarguable I’m afraid. Do the research, make the visits, but don’t burn any bridges or move out here unable to support yourselves, or you could be in trouble fast - there is far less safety net here than you would be used to in the UK. Getting the kids into school will be no problem, once you are registered on the padron in a town they will find a place for your kids at (Spanish) school. At that age they’d do very well linguistically and educationally, but financing a decent lifestyle and income for them will be more challenging. You can find out more about schools in the Northern Costa at http://www.oldschoolgate.com, and talk to others who have made the move, but it’s important to separate the romantic ideal of life in the sun from the cold hard facts, and it would be irresponsible to encourage anyone to move out here without guaranteed work.
That doesnt mean you can’t follow your dreams and make them come true, and have a good life out here once you have enough income for the basics. Sure the tourist water parks cost a bomb, but so do theme parks in the UK, and the big difference here is that lots of brilliant outdoor stuff is free (eg days at the beach) - in the UK last summer when it rained all the time we couldnt find anything to do with the kids that didnt cost! Our air is cleaner, roads quieter, kids have less time in front of TV and games - for us we are very happy that we moved when we did,
I am in a reasonable position for making the move. Due to a house sale, I will have approx ?50k after clearing the mortgage. My plan is to put ?40k away safe (investment or other). What we aim to do is rent a house for 6 months, make the move, and see if we can get jobs etc sorted out. At the end of the 6 months, we will either make the commitment to stay, or return home, in either case we would still have the ?40k as a deposit for a house, whether that be in UK or spain.
I’m not trying to state all Spaniards are racist, as adults I assume some sense of proportion would be assumed in my comments.
Think of it like this, Spaniards think of us Brits in the same way many Brits think of Polish, Romanian and Asian’s.
Not all Brits feel racist, but having heard reports around the country, a lot in the run up to the election by UKIP and interviews in certain English counties and you’ll be close to it.
I’m not making out Spaniards are xenophobic, fearsly Nationalist would be closer to the mark.
As an example my OH spoke to a friend, not a close one just from the school run who keeps in touch via Facebook, she recently asked why my wife why she hadn’t lost weight since the food in the UK is so bad.
I remember a visit to my OH grandparents, our daughter was around a yr old and was offered some sweets by the neighbours, who all came out to see the child, she was offered some Aspitos, which she loved, anybody with kids will no what these are, one commented that the excitement shown by our child was due to the UK not having sweets.
On the same visit we entered El corte Ingles, our daughter had a wrist strap on attached to my OH wrist, so as not to get lost, some women went past commenting on the English dog.
I could go on and on and on and on, I guess I’ve just been in the wrong place, maybe its my poor level of Spanish that means I misunderstood there comments, more likely being an obvious Guiri and our reputation amoungst Europeans as never learning the lingo people felt free to comment without fear of being understood, although snide remarks are made to my OH whenever see meets neighbours and passers by in her home town and around Spain.
As a member of a Spanish family well away from foreigners any trip to her family will result in at least 8 hours a day in the street, from the morning shop, to the lunch time drink, then the evening walk, to the night drinking copa’s, so do this for 15 yrs at least 3 times a yr, add the 3 weddings plus my own, 5 baptism, 8 birthday parties, several communions and 2 funerals plus at least 3 Feria’s a yr in Spain I kinda been involved with enough Spanish culture to be well educated on the attitude generally felt in Spain.
Also the 7 Spanish families we are friends with in the UK with 3 in our children’s school some married to British guys all have nothing good to say on most of Spains issues and left Spain to escape the problems.
And also add the 4 yrs I spent amongst Spanish co workers, visiting Expats from UK and all over the EU as part of my job, which caused me a huge eye opener when the vast majority asked why the hell did I want to work in Spain and I was nearly always asked if there all as bad as they have met, I got used to it eventually, but it really surprised me how many non UK expats could not get along with Spaniards and as it was Andalucia how many Spaniards detested the Andalucians, i had one elderly women from Madrid calling them Hijo de puta from the time see saw I wasnt one to the time I left her home.
I am in a reasonable position for making the move. Due to a house sale, I will have approx ?50k after clearing the mortgage. My plan is to put ?40k away safe (investment or other). What we aim to do is rent a house for 6 months, make the move, and see if we can get jobs etc sorted out. At the end of the 6 months, we will either make the commitment to stay, or return home, in either case we would still have the ?40k as a deposit for a house, whether that be in UK or spain.
Either way, we can at least say we tried it!
I’d love to know your thoughts!
Its a good plan.
Many return to the UK empty handed having exhausted all their funds moving to Spain, it depends on your level of intellect as to whether my advice is like teaching you to suck eggs, you’d be surprised how many miss the point and move with only hope in there plans and the thought I’m never returning to the UK, I had the same thought sat on the pasaeo drinking cold beers in the hot setting sun in the first week of living in Spain, its a great feeling knowing you made it, it disappeared for me once the holiday period was over and the realities of banks, loans, bills, school issues and poor job conditions came into the dream, the sun, sea and sangria then started to taste bitter.
Which is why I try to advise not cutting ties to the UK until your sure, you’d be surprised at how people don’t plan return possibility, which could also explain why Spain was recently described as the largest council estate outside of the UK.
Yea I definitely would have a back up plan, I’m too paranoid and wary just to go all out. I’m in a good position as it stands, and I have it in my head that if I dont make the move and just buy another house here in UK, I’ll never make the move, and be tortured with “what if….”’
I’m trying to find out a bit more about things like cost of living, realistic job prospects (which I am being realistic as theyre poor everywhere) and average salaries, to see if around ?10k is a good amount to allow for 6 months rent and spends while we are there.
BELGIUM - Airspace open. Limited service
BRITAIN - Airspace open over Scotland and Northern Ireland. Limited airspace over north of England. London airports closed
DENMARK - Airspace above 16,600ft open. No landings
FRANCE - Limited flights from Paris to international destinations. Most airports open
GERMANY - Airspace staying shut to 0001 GMT Wednesday, apart from 800 low-altitude flights
IRELAND - Airspace open , take BA long haul flight for Usa , Shannon Airport has said it is preparing for up to 11 British Airways flights arriving from the United States between 7pm and 9pm tonight . The aircrafts had planned to fly to Heathrow in London but if they can not land there , they will and at Shannon, where it is likely passengers will overnight .
Aer Lingus flights cancelled until 1pm tomorrow
Ryanair
Flights cancellations in Northern Europe extended from 1300hrs Wed 21st April to 1300hrs Thur 22nd April.
Flights between Ireland and UK cancelled until 1300hrs Fri 23rd April to allow for extra flights from Ireland to Continental Europe and from UK to Continental Europe on Thursday 22nd April.
ITALY - Airspace open. Handful of flights resumed in and out of Milan
NETHERLANDS - Airspace open. Passenger flights arriving and departing in Amsterdam
NORWAY - Airspace reopened
POLAND - Airspace closed
SPAIN - Airspace open; all airports operating
SWEDEN - Airspace open over central-northern Sweden
SWITZERLAND - Airspace reopened
Yea I definitely would have a back up plan, I’m too paranoid and wary just to go all out. I’m in a good position as it stands, and I have it in my head that if I dont make the move and just buy another house here in UK, I’ll never make the move, and be tortured with “what if….”’
I’m trying to find out a bit more about things like cost of living, realistic job prospects (which I am being realistic as theyre poor everywhere) and average salaries, to see if around ?10k is a good amount to allow for 6 months rent and spends while we are there.
It depends on a lot of factors, 10k would last you the same amount of time it would in the UK living a normal life.
We paid around 550 Euros a month for a 3 bed furnished apt in a town east of malaga city and was 2nd line of the beach. Our food bills and running cost did not differ much from the UK, take away council tax, we managed on 1,000 euros a month expenditure, add onto that social drinking and being out and about with the car.
10k should be ample, jobs you’ll either need to be very lucky or network a lot, in Spain specially southern Spain a lot of back scratching is required, much more than the UK, it is accepted.
There are jobs such as Care Assistants, a friend of ours started last yr, her husband lost a lot of overtime due to the crisis and has had to start work, although she has a degree it is the only job offered, she does 5 nights a week and gets paid 580 Euros, she has to provide her own rubber gloves and clothing.
Another of our friends who’s husband lost his job as a waiter does cleaning 5 days a week, around 6 hrs a day in some holiday rental apts, she gets around 600 Euros a month.
As for the men I know most bar one are still in jobs, one is in a car part maker and is on shut down at 30% his wage, the most any make is around 1500 Euros a month, he works in Malaga port, generally though a semi skilled job is around that wage.
Wow, between BDP’s great post and Santi’s itty bitty backtracking (amongst the negative points) I’d almost say we have a fairly realistic, comprehensive perspective on the situation for a lot of soon to be, or dreaming to be, expats here.
I made the move to Spain 6 years ago and obviously since the economic climate has changed in that time, so too has the situation for expats, many of which have had to return to the UK as Santi pointed out.
However, aswell as the expats that didn’t make it, I know a lot who also have made it through the tough times, and for these expats, they are now emerging through the crisis in a stronger position than before.
As I own a business here I guess I have more contact with other business-owners and I believe this sector of the expat sommunity has been less effected than those who rely on paid employment.
With that in mind I would think carefully about starting your own business in these testing times rather than replying on getting and keeping a job.
What are you good at?
What are you skilled at?
What do you know about?
What are you passionate about?
You have quite a bit of money to come over with, perhaps you could consider investing some of that into starting your own business. Just a thought. The final decision is of course yours and I hope you make the right one to enable you to live a happy life here in Spain.
As for the people here I have found them to be mostly kind and lovely people. My boyfriend is Spanish and his family go out of their way to make me feel welcome (even though I still struggle with the lingo at times). I think a lot of the reality we see in our world is a reflection of what we ourselves think about. So expect the people to be nice and friendly and that is what will be true in your reality.
Am I right in thinking that all these “less positive” views are shared by people who live amongst their own on the coasts? There seems to be an ever so slight trend to all this.
