Well anytime you have cradle to grave social programs in place, France is what you get. On the other hand, do you really want to use China and India as comparisons? China has had to recall dog food, fruits and vegetables, toys, etc. due to food contamination, lead, corruption and bribery. Wasn’t it just a few weeks ago that their Minister of Trade was executed for taking bribes? Now lets look at the social programs and health care that the chinese provide to their citizenry: Forced to travel, in some cases, several days to reach a clinic; forced abortions after the first child; forced loss of land in the name of the State; pollution that is 2nd to only India, I could go on and on, but why bother? I think you get the point.
Now, why is it that WEALTHY Europeans go to the US to get medical care? Because in the capitalistic system that is the US, when you pay for something in cash, you get to go to the head of the line!!! DOES NOT MEAN THE HEALTHCARE IS BETTER! Just faster, and certainly not cheaper! When you have 5 or more hospitals in a large city competing for insurance dollars, they tend to love foreigners: (1) no hassle with insurance companies; (2) no hassle with patient copays; (3) the hospital can charge full rates, not the negotiated rate for insurance companies; (4) because the patient is not a US Citizen, the likelihood of a medical claim against the hospital or doctor is greatly reduced. Does this flocking of WEALTHY Europeans (using your own quotes) mean that drugs or pharmaceauticals are better or less expensive in the United States? Hardly not—-drugs on average cost several times what they do here because the drug manufacturers are able to pass along all marketing costs, not just research and development, into the cost of the drug. What is a marketing costs? Advertising, publications, LOBBYISTS in Washington DC, just to name a few. Why is it that NORMAL American citizens flock to Canada to buy their drugs? It’s because in Canada, even considering the Loonie/Dollar exchange rate, the drugs cost a fraction of what they do in the US.
Perhaps if you like the Capitalistic system so much, you might want to consider living in the States. Make sure you go thru the ENTIRE experience of losing your job, medical and dental insurance because of the job loss, your savings because now you have to pay for your medical and dental for you and your family, your home mortgage or apartment rental, car payment, credit cards, etc. Now, lets talk about your retirement plan. Work 23 years for an airline that PROMISED to pay your pension from retirement age to death. Let the airline go into bankruptcy and gut the pension plan, and get 21% of the benefits PROMISED you because the PENSION GUARANTEE BOARD, a US Federal Agency, does not REQUIRE COMPANIES TO FULLY FUND their pension plans. After the company goes bankrupt, the standard answer becomes"ooppsss, we’re so sorry, but what you worked for all your life was just used to pay the creditors! You’ll just have to rely on social security”.
AFTER you live through this, then come back to me and tell me what kind of mind you THINK I have. AFTER you live thru an experience such as the one I just described to you, you will SCREAM for your European Social Programs that protect the average person. We have a saying in the US, and I suggest you remember it: “Be careful of what you ask for. You just may get it.” My friend, I used to have an American mind, then a globalized mind, and along came Reagan, Bush I, and Bush Jr. Now I have an OPEN mind.
I do not believe in the Social assistance programs that Europeans Country have!!!!! I believe that Free Market Capitalism is the way for a prosperous nation. Take for example Sarkozy in France he gets it and France and their Socialist systems like in Europe France competitive is one of the worst in the world and with the rise of China and India i do not see Europe maybe Germany getting out of the hole. America could be this and that but the system is not perfect but it is the best. That is why wealthy Europeans and Canadians come to the U.S for medical treatment??????????????????????? My friend you have a European mind get a Globalize one.
A couple of open questions:
a) do wealthy Europeans and Canadians really go to the US for medical treatment? I hadn’t noticed they do, particularly. Medical tourism occurs where appropriate treatment is available (in countries including Spain, Switzerland, India and Cuba as well as the US).
b) isn’t the rise of China and India more of a threat to US global ambition than to the European economies anyway?
c) is anyone reading the content on this site interested in what Rokipatel personally does or does not believe in? And is he meant to be funny?
d) assuming it’s not a joke, didn’t a lot of you Americans leave the US to get away from this shock-jock-style jingoism in the first place?
e) what does any of this have to do with the original thread (which was, if I remember correctly, quite interesting and in keeping with the subject of the site)?
Why do you mean don’t let Rokipatel get away with it?
I am sorry facts are facts the U.S may not be a Socialize systems like most Eu countries but when it comes to life expectancy and economic development there no match. ( Please do not include Cuba) Cuba manipulates their numbers no international agency has access to the real situation of the Cuban people. Reality comes at a price political propaganda misinformation have created a situation where most of the world try to blame America for their internal problems. It is human nature to concentrate in somebody else problems except your own. I am so glad there are leaders like Nikolas Sarkozy that get it and if France wants to become a competitive country they must make harsh economic and social changes. No citizen in this Globalize world should pay Tax Brackets of 55% 65% and have a poverty rate and a GDP per capita like most Eu Countries have. America provides the conditions for the individual to grow and to make itself a life either rich or poor is up to the individual to seek the opportunities. Did you know that American Students have more access to a University education than any other student in the world. Did you know that America has the highest Post secondary education system in the world. Now there are many problems with America but the beauty of it is the capacity and the freedoms to transform and make the systems better and that is something that no country in the world has. On your question of health care is a Fact that in Canada most people received health care free but is it the best. Do you know that Canada has the highest malpractice in north America comparable with Mexico and so other 3rd world countries. Did you know that 80% of Canada’s cancer populations is on waiting list hoping that Canada health dept. authorizes them for treatment in U.S hospitals. It is true that 44 million Americans do not have Health insurance but did you know that 20 million of those 44 million are eligible for Medicaid insurance. Do you know that Medicaid insurance cover 100% of medical cost regardless of treatment or medical facility. In the United States more than 20 million ilegals get free medical care without paying a cent. There are about 515,000 Public health trust medical centers and clinics in the U.S or what you call public hospitals. It is not hard to understand why King Hussein, King alfaisal, Ex presidents like Francois Miterrand and Jose Aznar come to the U.S to get there medical treatment because it is simply better. By having a free private medical system that pays the highest salaries in the world to doctors that want to develop economically and socially choose the U.S to practice medicine so we have the best medical talent in the world. Also why is it that America has more Nobel prices in Economics, literature, Science that any other country is because it attracts the best of the best in the world and they all convert to be Americans. Living in Europe i have found out that Europeans are very complaisant of their lives and they expect that there government takes care of all there problems. I have not seen yet a ragz to riches stories like you see in America everyday. In Europe the wealthy are wealthy because of heritage aristocrats that their great gandfathers were rich so their grandparents and their parents so they believed they are entitle to be better than the rest. In America you see a poor mexican immigrant with no vision strive to be better make themselves rich also even minorities in america are growing their networths by 30% in Europe most of them do not even have permission to work. A clear Example is the Cuban community in Spain is one of the poorest while in the U.S the Average Cubanamerican has a yearly income of over 65,000 dollars and even some of the richest americans include Cubans, Puertoricans, and Mexicans. You may not agree with the way america is but the numbers do not lie…......
I should just ignore Rokipatel and forget about this thread, but I can’t quite bring myself to do so.
Just a couple of things to refute this time, Roki old chap -
- You say there’s “no match” for life expectancy in the US. Life expectancy in the US is currently 38th in the world, behind Spain, the UK, Germany, Greece, Chile and your pals in Cuba.
- University attendance in the US is behind Australia, Denmark, Poland and the UK; I couldn’t find a specific US ranking anywhere, but it’s not “more access than any other in the world” as you claim. US tertiary education is notoriously uneven in quality, too, but I won’t go there.
- The US stands at no 36 in the world for adult literacy, behind most of Europe (but shamefully a couple of places ahead of the UK).
You may have a right to express your opinions, but there really isn’t much point in just making stuff up.
The U.S has more University Students than any other country in the world. The U.S has more access to University than Germany and the UK by far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also when i talk about economic Development i am not talking about HDI which you are referring to. What is funny is that the U.S having almost a population of 300 millions has a bigger GDP per capita and a lower poverty rate that Germany, France, UK now it is highly contested the numbers that put the U.S low on the HDI index Many universities in the U.S including Harvard have raised the alarms regarding statistics and how they are collected on the case of Cuba they provide themselves the numbers and this are posted as legitimate when you go to Cuba you see the other side of the coin. My friend i am not making anything up most of the information is available in cia factbook, which is the same as the BBC factbook and world bank.
The rality is that Life Expectancy is the same in the E.U as the U.S but when it comes to Death Rates the U.S takes the cake and that proves even when the U.S does not have a Socialize medical system people are more prone to survive and we have less deaths per 1000 people than the countries above.
Now when it comes to wear down of resorces let me put some numbers
Immigrations rate
U.S
3.05/1000 people
U.K
2.17/1000 people
Austria
1.9/1000 people
The U.S is the country in the world that receives per capita more immigration than any other country. And that is not counting more than 20 million illegals the country has…
Rokipatel, you seem to like statistics when they support your own views, and then when they suggest that you might be wrong, you quote no less an authority than Harvard University to suggest that statistics are worthless. That would be the Harvard that’s produced so many of the world’s greatest statisticians over the years?
On student numbers, I was referring to the percentage of people entering a first degree course at a recognised university. I don’t know how you work out “university access” or the number of students in a nation (including post-grads, and people majoring in hairdressing and basketball, for that matter), but it’s not the same.
And how do you work out “poverty rate”? If it’s living on less than half the national average income, then the US has twice as many people in poverty than France (16% to 8%, roughly).
And what’s the hysteria about Cuba? I only mentioned that they have a longer life expectancy than the US (which may be down to them not having access to US junk food thanks to the blockade), but they’re only 37th next to your 38th. What about the other 36 nations?
Anyway, you want to have the last word, so knock yourself out. I’m bored with this now.
What happens is that you need to read what the post says and not assumed general information regarding HDI or something else. In my post i said very clearly economic development you also point out life expectancy but the facts say U.S life Expectancy are equal to EU but our Death rates are better than most E.U countries. When i talk about Harvard is regarding to a Magazine article from the Harvard review regarding the gathering of dependable data because the agencies like UN, World Bank and others gather information provided to them without actually investigating the veracity of it.
In regards to Research & development the U.S post secondary system University has more resources in regards to human capital and financial that any other system in the world and that is why the U.S leads in Scientific research and a clear example is the amount of Nobel prizes the U.S has. The U.S university system attracts the best talent from outside and within. look the prince of Spain got his degree from Georgetown university and he is not the only monarch that gets attracted to the U.S university system.
What i am trying to say in my post is that most European complain about the U.S this and that but they seemed to forget the have more problems of their own. That is why i move to Europe i do not like people to tell me that Europe does this better than the U.s and Frankly there are many things in which i think Europe has the upper hand but overall i have just seen allot of Hotair and a complete misconception and ignorant torse America. I will like to have all money in the world and take regular Europeans to the U.S so they could see that America and the Opportunity America is.
Can I just say that I think it’s great that the US has a lower life expectancy and higher barriers to good education and health care?
Speaking from an ethnocentric, evolutionary perspective, this means that the best rise to the top and the worst have to die. So if you’re lazy and don’t work hard, then you go no where and die. If you come from extraordinarily disadvantaged circumstances then all the better because, let’s face it, we can’t ALL afford to have a good education and get good health care right? It’s the richest 10% that make America strong anyway. And I’m not going to pay for my lazy alcoholic neighbour to continue to just sit there! He should either die or get off his ass and fight for his right to live! I feel bad about my other neighbour, I know her husband just died (no insurance) and she’s struggling, but hell, they’ve made their choices right? I guess they shouldn’t have spent so much time enjoying life while they were young! Let that be a lesson to all of you!
And you know, I think it’s great that the secularists have lost the way on God in America. People who love Jesus know best how to run America. Let the rest of the world whither and die because America is the greatest, with the highest GDP EVER and will never succumb to your communist ways!
Now now…I don’t think Virginia ever intended her original post to be taken here! LOL
There are many things I love and miss about the US, but one thing I don’t miss is medical and retirement insecurity. Forget your statistics. My parents have hep c. My mom was dying of it. Her liver was failing. She’s been working at a small company for 10+ years and the insurance provided by her employer did not cover all of the costs of the hep treatment she needed. She sold her (our) house in order to pay 30,000 dollars for the treatment that saved her life. I don’t think people have to do such things to get treatment in Europe. When you say that wealthy Europeans go to the States for treatment, the only explanation I can think of is if there’s a cutting edge treatment available in the USA that’s not available in Europe. That’s about the only perk I can see to our medical system is that there is a lot of research and progress being made in medicine. But I’ve never met any Europeans who’ve said they’ve gone to the USA for healthcare. Maybe for plastic surgery but that’s different. My husband keeps saying that if I ever need heart surgery it’s better just to get on a plane and come here! I think I would. I had to get a cavity here filled recently. It only cost 30 euros! In the States that’s hundeds of dollars!
When my father collapsed and needed to go to the hospital, he had to pay 700 dollars just for the ambulance ride! And he has health insurance! Thank goodness he didn’t need the helicopter! Some friends of my mother were living without health insurance. They were doing fine until one day the wife had an unforseen aneurism. Of course she had to go to the hospital and spent many days there. I think she died within a week. One week in the hosp?tal without insurance resulted in him losing his home, losing everything. Things shouldn’t be that way. My Spanish husband estimates that the average doctor in Spain makes about 40-80 thousand euros a year. That’s how they’re able to make their system work. But unfortunatly American doctors are millionaires and things will never be socialized as they are in Europe unless there’s a bloody revolution. My best friend’s father is a dentist, and he wholly agreed with that. His house is like a palace.
And replying to your alleged millions of immigrants getting free treatment in the USA, I’ve gotten free treatment in Spain, TWICE. So there! Before we got married and I was here only on a tourist visa, they treated me and sent me on my way without any problem.
Let’s change topics because this is a dead-end discussion. I’d like to move back to a question from flyeogh. You asked about Spanish men being macho. I’ve also heard Spaniards say this, but I haven’t really found any evidence of it! You don’t see much machismo in their media, nor sexism. Actually, after having lived in Spain I’ve found society to be delightfully not-macho in comparison to back home. For instance, I now know it’s not a male biological trait to be messy. That’s just American men’s excuse for being too lazy to pick up after themselves (my father in mind)! After reading your post I specifically asked some Spanish friends what they thought about that macho reputation. They thought that reputation might come from the South, or it might be from older generations. Here in the Basque Country things seem to be pretty equal. I’m curious to hear what people from other parts of Spain are saying about the Basques, as you mentioned?
Yankeegirl i appreciate your experiences and i do respected them. Now in regards to Expatriator the life Expectancy in the U.S is the same as most EU countries so the U.S is equal in that sense but when it comes to Death rates clearly the U.S has better numbers and this contradicts any study regarding U.S health system. It is hard to understand when you come form a Society like in Europe which is a Society that expects the government to resolve all there problems is a society of entitlement and the U.S is a Society of Self accomplishment. Now i rather be part of a society that gives me the freedoms to excel and to become the best i could be on my efforts. Now the opportunities are there for the taking but they are not going to be given to you as entitlements.
On Education i completely disagree there are more opportunities for University education in the U.S than any other country and that preparation makes the U.S capable of attracting from outside and within the greatest talent on Earth.
Rokipatel, I’m trying to figure out where you’re coming from. Are you American, or are you European?
One thing I’ll say about the situation in the USA is that, yes, you have the opportunity to reach the top, and also to fall flat on your face. For me it’s worth sacrificing a little in order to maintain a social safety net for everyone. No matter how secure you think you are you never know when life will deal you a bad card.
On the other hand, I think one other result of the individualistic & capitalistic society in America is that we are more ambitious people. What we do and how well we can do it is a large part of our identity and the respect we do or don’t receive from people. In Spain it seems to me that people are less concerned with their personal ?legacy? or potential. There seems to be an ease about people here maybe because they know they won’t be millionaires, nor will they end up on the streets. Everyone’s going to make out more or less the same. I guess work just isn’t as important for them as it is for us.
They also seem to be less impressed by individuals with extraordinary skill. I guess it doesn’t matter if you’re a street cleaner, a master pianist, or a neurosurgeon -In Spain you’ll be received the same!
Americans, at least in my opinion, value talent much more than Spaniards. Most Americans strive to be good at something and many have a hobby outside of work where they showcase their talent. I’m a school teacher in Spain and I’m always amazed when I ask my students what hobbies they have. Most say ?watching TV and going out with my friends?and only about 10 kids out of 100 have a concrete extra-curricular skill like gymnastics, dance, art, playing a musical instrument, etc. If you ask kids of the same age in the USA, probably 60% will tell you they have one such skill. Has anyone else noticed this difference? I guess I started noticing this when I tried talking to Spaniards about music and couldn’t find many people who had much to say, let alone many people who played an instrument. Maybe music is just a more important element in American culture…
While there’s less pressure for achievement here in Spain (which is somewhat of a relief) I also miss people who have a passion for something. Then again I also like the laid-back approach to life Spaniards have… Does anyone else feel as mixed up as I do? 😊 hehe
That’s interesting, Yankeegirl. I think US people talk up their jobs and careers, while Brits talk them down. I was at a wedding in Baltimore a few years ago and met several American friends I hadn’t seen for years. When I asked them how they were doing, it was all “yeah, great, I’m senior VP, my business is booming, I just got head-hunted, my job is so fulfilling” etc. In Britain, by contrast, we find that kind of talk very uncomfortable, almost rude even, and we understate our achievements all the time. You can be speaking to someone for hours and get the impression that they do some tragically dull and lowly job and live in a hovel, and then later you find out they run a multinational or direct movies or they’re a heart surgeon or something. In Spain it’s even more extreme - people just don’t ask you about your career very often, and Spaniards have told me that’s because profession indicates income and social standing, so to ask “a que te dedicas?” is almost as rude as asking right out “how much do you earn?” Spain’s biggest businessmen - the guys behind Zara, Iberdrola and Santander - are all very low-key, I notice. So I’m waffling now, but I think there’s a behavioural difference which makes Americans seem more entrepreneurial than they really are, and us Europeans less so. Make sense?
I am American of Spanish Descend? My grandfather is from Andalucia Sevilla and he currently lives there now? I live in Puerto Banus, Marbella like 2 hours from him. My father is Cuban by birth but after Fidel my grandfather brought back all his family back to Andalucia were his family had Farms and Business. MY Father is the oldest of 5 Sons and the only one to be born in Cuba all my Uncles are andalucian. When my father was 19 he left back to the Caribbean to the Island of Puerto rico where he met my Mother Cuban born also but raised in Puerto rico. Puerto rico is an American Territory so me and my sisters were born americans. The best example that i have is the my Father that decided to come to America and establish himself he build from the ground up one of the biggest business in Puerto rico later he open in Miami and Texas and other parts of the U.S. My father became a very successful businessman and out of his bothers by far he develop himself to be a very successful economically and socially. Part of his success and he taught me America is the only country in the world that provides you with the right enviroment for people to reach their dreams. Now you might be very complaisant about the way of Spanish living and a i concord because the atmosphere is very relax here but it really bothers me the amount of ignorant comments from Spaniards and Europeans about America . My Father Died in 2000 i was a Engineered by trade and i was already in Real State and developing in Puerto rico i decided that year to move to Miami were i was able to Capitalize on the Real State Boom than now is Bursting. I appreciate the opportunities America give to other nations and being very well documented and traveled i have been able to uncover allot of Myths and America is still the best country in the World for a person to reach its dreams and develop.
